zerogain name change -hi fi rage

[cooky1257]

Sorry mate but you are absolutist and have a closed mind.
Tannoy professional products delusionally recommend single crystal OFC wire as 'capable of revealing finer detail in the monitoring situation", 'B&W confess to the 'heresy' of using their ears in selecting caps when voicing their crossovers(whatever next?)Tannoy are not a cable company and B&W dont make caps. Now call me old fashioned but I would assume their engineers are members of the scientific community only they are spending their time doing real developmental research not heckling from the sidelines long discarded notions that the numbers tell the whole story.
I suggest you search for some articles by Rupert Neve about components selection-Or maybe Neve talk bollocks as well.....
I'm done and to think I came back from the dead for this:SLEEP:

 

[Stereo Mic]

I wondered when the attempts at justification would stop and the insults start. Always happens when you find yourself in a corner. So utterly predicable.

You don't have to worry about my "credibity" mate, I am merely relaying the message of others. Many others. All of whom have considerably more intelligence and understanding than anyone on this board. I'm afraid to say you and me included.

I don't think they will be too worried if you don't consider them to be "credible"

Just to add, for an absolutist and a closed mind, I really have owned a huge variety of audio equipment, as only too many on this forum can attest. Must try harder.

 

[Stereo Mic]

But that still does not explain WHY you would use a test methodology that can only have an objective outcome for a subject that is entirely subjective. That isn't scientific, that is totally absurd and perverse in the extreme.

Sorry Effem I missed this.

There is nothing subjective about if there is a difference or not. Subjectivity only comes into the size and importance of that difference.

 

[George Sallit]

Colloms in a journalist and makes money out of differences.

Do you want any more names of people who although reviewers do perform measurements and have an understanding of how equipment works Paul Miller for example.

Faulkner made money out of differences and is an artist not a scientist.

No he doesn't. Tony Faulkner does not make any money from cables he records music. He is an engineer and believes that cables make a difference. I guess he would rather they did not as it costs him money

Clearmountain is a wacky studio guy - there's always one!

He is a respected studio engineer and one who commands a premium because of the sound quality of his work. Would you like the names of some more studio engineers who believe that cables make a difference and are prepared to spend money on it? Studios tend be notoriously tight on money so tend not to spend too much on unnecessary items

It's funny how cable soothsayers cling to the alleged research of Dr. Hawksford. I appreciate the reference. Perhaps you should check your reference in these discussions:

Unfortunately all the links failed to work. I am always open minded and interested in other views.

But they would think you were certifiable if you told them you spent £300 on a meter of cable or read some of the posts here.

For someone demanding proof you do tend to make sweeping assertions with little evidence. This was based on your discussions with mates down a pub or some research?

I thought long and hard about that observation and stand by it.

Then let me make an assertion, you do not understand mental health at all. You do not understand what a major step it is to 'section someone' and the care and concern that is taken before anything as draconian as this is done.

You've produced four people of highly dubious credibility or with vested interests to stand against the collective wisdom of the global scientific community and 99.9% of people on earth.

Wow, what nonsense. 'Highly dubious credibility or vested interests' as opposed to respected audio recording engineers. Remember people are paying these guys to produce high quality recordings. They have both done so on hundreds (if not thousands ) of times. You have exaggerated to the extreme. If you said yes but their views on cables are wrong I might have accepted it but highly dubious credibility...perleeez... And double wow to the 99.9% of people on earth. You have absolutely no idea what most of the people on earth think. For a start you don't speak their language. And as for representing the global wisdom of the scientific community, fortunately it is not as closed minded as you and very very very few actually state that they can speak on their behalf or the population of the earth's behalf (with the possible exception of God/Jesus

 

[cooky1257]

Sorry Mike, It wasn't an insult it was a substantiated observation.
What I'm wondering about is where are the members of the scientific community rushing to your defense?
Maybe if you didn't make such egregeous claims as to the immutabilty of all you opine they'd be here and we'd get along.
I'd say I agree with 90% of what you say, tho' we've probably swapped too many snide comments recently.
In order for any blind testing to be in any way meaningful the apparatus you use needs to be tested, calibrated and neutral seems to me you have two variables one is the component the other is the human ear/brain(lots of em) -no wonder it isn't conclusive..Something B&W said in that piece 'the difficulty in mapping specs with effects"
Now you wouldn't measure voltage with a selection of dodgy(ie subjective) meters would you? Sorry there I go again trying reasoning.
In Monty Python and the Holy Grail in their quest for the Grail, do you remember what happened to the keeper of the bridge of death?
See ya.

 

[Stereo Mic]

Do you want any more names of people who although reviewers do perform measurements and have an understanding of how equipment works Paul Miller for example.
[/I][/B]

Please post a link to the article Paul Miller wrote on sonic differences in technically identical cables? I can't see why this is so hard to understand. Without a hifi industry these guys don't have jobs. Paul Miller is a knowledgable and sensible guy. I wait for the link to his evidence of cable differences. I presume the paper would have been presented to the AES?

No he doesn't. Tony Faulkner does not make any money from cables he records music. He is an engineer and believes that cables make a difference. I guess he would rather they did not as it costs him money

Yes he does. He had a commercial arrangement with dCS and I believe B&W. No one here says cables cannot sound different - it is just a)utterly unpredictable, b) measurable, and c, nothing to do with voodoo or other forms of "metalogy" (sic)

Clearmountain is a wacky studio guy - there's always one!

He is a respected studio engineer and one who commands a premium because of the sound quality of his work. Would you like the names of some more studio engineers who believe that cables make a difference and are prepared to spend money on it? Studios tend be notoriously tight on money so tend not to spend too much on unnecessary items

Great you've got one guy! It will become incredibly tiresome for me to have to list all of the world's top studios that use simple, decent quality copper cable and quality connectors won't it so can we stop the sillyness? If you take Mastersound in New York it's all basic Van Damme with Neutrik connectors. The main requirements were reliability and consistency. As they are just about everywhere. How many of the world's top studios are equipped with Silver Platalloy hybrids on cable supports wrapped in Shark sperm impregnated latex sheaths?

It's funny how cable soothsayers cling to the alleged research of Dr. Hawksford. I appreciate the reference. Perhaps you should check your reference in these discussions:

Unfortunately all the links failed to work. I am always open minded and interested in other views.

But they would think you were certifiable if you told them you spent £300 on a meter of cable or read some of the posts here.

For someone demanding proof you do tend to make sweeping assertions with little evidence. This was based on your discussions with mates down a pub or some research?

There is evidence where ever you look. I don't have to prove a thing. On the other hand of course, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that cables sharing similar LCR characteristics have any sonic differences at all when used in the same system. So I'm entitled to ask for some proof. Are you going to provide it?

Wow, what nonsense. 'Highly dubious credibility or vested interests' as opposed to respected audio recording engineers. Remember people are paying these guys to produce high quality recordings. They have both done so on hundreds (if not thousands ) of times. You have exaggerated to the extreme. If you said yes but their views on cables are wrong I might have accepted it but highly dubious credibility...perleeez... And double wow to the 99.9% of people on earth. You have absolutely no idea what most of the people on earth think. For a start you don't speak their language. And as for representing the global wisdom of the scientific community, fortunately it is not as closed minded as you and very very very few actually state that they can speak on their behalf or the population of the earth's behalf (with the possible exception of God/Jesus

And the close with the rising temperature and the midly insulting waffle.

Colloms has little credibility in my book I'm afraid. Sideshow Bob on this forum and Markus have considerably more IMO. There are people on this forum who are involved with the production side of the industry whose views have already been expressed and are totally at odds with Faulkner's and Clearmountain. Do they suddenly have zero credibility too? Even though they have no vested financial interest?

As for the rest of your summation, well it just gets silly doesn't it? We do know what these people think. We know the percentage of the global population who have an interest in audio. And just so that you can catch up and try to understand

The scientific community say that any audible differences between cables are explainable be large differences in their LCR characteristics. If no such differences exist, the claim audible differences are imaginary and disappear under controlled conditions as has been repeatedly proven in tests carried out on numerous occasions - many of which can be viewed on line.

At this time, there is ZERO evidence to counter that position, and until a member of the audiofruit fraternity can reliably identify that their collective wisdom is wrong, it is reasonable for all sane people to conclude that they are correct in their hypothesis.

Now if you can introduce something to this argument other than a discredited professor, a journalist and two recording engineers with ties to the audiophool industry, then that would really give us a platform to move this conversation forwards, but as it stands, I still await a shred of proof or evidence from any of my detractors/insulters.

Then let me make an assertion, you do not understand mental health at all. You do not understand what a major step it is to 'section someone' and the care and concern that is taken before anything as draconian as this is done.

As a side issue, once again you are totally wrong. As a youth many years ago I ill advisedly snorted Ketamine and got to briefly understand the subject thanks In fact I'm probably the only person on the forum who is to this day actually certified sane. Some might say it shows...

My point was of course that both people are, as far as the science profession is concerned, deluded, but of course this point seems to have been missed by "Annoyed of Dunblane"

 

[Baudrillard]

.

 

[Stereo Mic]

Sorry Mike, It wasn't an insult it was a substantiated observation.

No it was an insult.

What I'm wondering about is where are the members of the scientific community rushing to your defense?

Do you think members of the scientific community waste their time browsing a forum filled with posts about Platalloy, Metalogy, Voodoo spikes, elephant cocks and Shark sperm?

You might have noticed a number of more rational forumites have been occasionally interjecting and i thank them for their support both here and via PM.

In order for any blind testing to be in any way meaningful the apparatus you use needs to be tested, calibrated and neutral seems to me you have two variables one is the component the other is the human ear/brain(lots of em) -no wonder it isn't conclusive..Something B&W said in that piece 'the difficulty in mapping specs with effects"

We are talking about unmeasurable differences being audible. All of you seem to have lost sight of that and assume I sit here saying everything sounds the same. It's a defense mechanism try to switch it off if you want to reason

Right blind tests. I have power amps with two inputs each and a preamp with two outputs. I can therefore do unsighted tests for any of you with no further electronics and a highly revealing system - or so people say.

If anyone wants, let's get Zanash to produce his best cable, I'll get some mates to produce something that matches it's LCR characteristics then three of you can sit on my sofa and settle this once and for all. I'll publish the results here. Whatever happens it won't be statistically significant, but it should stop some of this sillyness.

 

[cooky1257]

No it was an insult.



Do you think members of the scientific community waste their time browsing a forum filled with posts about Platalloy, Metalogy, Voodoo spikes, elephant cocks and Shark sperm?

Maybe I need to search the forum but I haven't come across much of this.

This also begs the question of course for your own presence.....



We are talking about unmeasurable differences being audible. All of you seem to have lost sight of that and assume I sit here saying everything sounds the same. It's a defense mechanism try to switch it off if you want to reason

Depends on how and what you measure doesn't it?.
You said to me in an early post all I needed to know was my digi cable was 75 ohm yet van damme publish many more parameters than lcr-'velocity of propagation' for one -whats that do then?
Also maybe you could look at it another way-(fat chance)what about establishing if all audible differences are measurable?

Right blind tests. I have power amps with two inputs each and a preamp with two outputs. I can therefore do unsighted tests for any of you with no further electronics and a highly revealing system - or so people say.

Major flaw-not my system, I am very very very familiar with mine and slight differences would be easier for me to spot (OOPS!) discern.

If anyone wants, let's get Zanash to produce his best cable, I'll get some mates to produce something that matches it's LCR characteristics then three of you can sit on my sofa and settle this once and for all. I'll publish the results here. Whatever happens it won't be statistically significant, but it should stop some of this sillyness.

I wouldn't want to take responsibilty for the consequences if you were proved wrong even if you do have a certificate saying you're sane and anyway who's to say you wouldn't cheat?.You've far more to lose than anyone.

Just do me a favour and hold the thought for a heartbeat before dismissing the possibilty-all I'm asking-all along-Are all audible differences measurable?

 

[JCL]

And if they're not measurable will they stand up to an A-B comparison ?

 

[melorib]

That's called "room acoustics" Antonio. I can help you there. And you won't need to consult the Wanky Wire Web

If my systems sound better than those on the audioshows, it means I handle "room acoustics" at least better than them, as their kit is usually better/more expensive than mine, wouldnt you agree...

 

[melorib]

Stereo Mic is Oedipus and I claim my 5 quid..

Why, because he is killing zerogain, because he solved the riddle of the hifi cables or because he does things unknowingly...

 

[melorib]

I wondered when the attempts at justification would stop and the insults start. Always happens when you find yourself in a corner. So utterly predicable.

Boy, you have some nerve... :yikes:


Sorry for posting 3 in a row, but I have better things to do in the evenings... :beamup:

 

[zanash]

err platalloy is a trade name of a cable ...like a silver ghost is not a real silver ghost ...like wine gums are not made from wine.... like the mouse your using is not a real mouse ...like stereo mic is not your real name .....like a dick head does not have a dick sticking out his head, like monster cables is not made of monsters.

So if your going to quote your so called facts at least make some effort to get things right....other wise you'll appear the bigger "SUITABLE DESCRIPTIVE TERM" than you appear from your recent 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong to the point of imbecility ' posts

 

[zanash]

so come on SM

I've asked in the past but it appears theres a certain amount of interest in those remaining zg members that you've not managed turned away ...


So what cables do you use......you do use cables don't you ?

its a simple question ......with a simple answer

I'm running a side bet that says you won't answer...like mosfet never did, because even though he maintained all bits of wire sound the same, like you.... he was I suspect running something rather more exotic than he'd want to admit to.

 

[joel]

You weren't asking me, but I'll fess up anyway.
I use Canare (recovered from a skip) line cables and electrical cable from aisan in akihabara for electrical connections and as speaker cable (as well as some Belden stereo line cables I made up in order to connect various PCs & my Korg DSD recorder to the system).
RCAs are mostly Canare F10, as they are fairly easy to solder and with a good but not too tight grip. Electrical plugs & junction boxes are also from Aisan and are mostly "hospital grade" (cos this stuff is tough).
The one piece of wanky wire I use is an allegedly $500 phono cable called a Leopard or Rhino or something that has what look like battery packs at one end.
And which made zero difference to the sound as far as I could tell. I don't take it out because it's an appallingly tight fit into the Morch and I can't be arsed to suffer the stress removing it would entail.

 

[Czechchris]

Black is white.






(I just wanted to join in.)

 

[tones]

You weren't asking me, but I'll fess up anyway.

You weren't asking me either, but I shall follow Joel's good example. I am a complete cable sceptic, both by scientific training and by experience. For ICs, I use a mixture of freebies (you know, the ones with red and white RCAs) from Japanese cassette players, cheapies and one good one, bought in my younger days when I briefly convinced myself that they made a difference, and then found they didn't. For speaker cable, I use some stuff with clear insulation bought at a big German DIY place just over the border - EUR13 for 10 metres (the thought of the extravagance makes me giddy). The power cords are naturally the ones that came with the equipment.

I once upset a lot of people on HFC by testing CHF900 of Nordost Red Dawn against one of my Japanese freebies and finding (and even worse, saying) that the differences between the two were zero, or more precisely, absolutely zero.

 

[melorib]

Most people are proud of what they excell in, positively, like seeing very well, having a great sense of taste, etc, audio objectivists, on the other hand, are proud of not hearing well, odd... :newbie:

 

[joel]

For speaker cable, I use some stuff with clear insulation bought at a big German DIY place just over the border - EUR13 for 10 metres

Tones, you paid over 1 euro / meter for your speaker cable, you mad audiophile My speaker cable cost a whopping 90yen / m which works out at about 0.6 euro / m. It comes in a rather fetching battleship grey and coils up very nicely. I was feeling particularly extravagant that day.