zerogain name change -hi fi rage

Status
Not open for further replies.
Dev said:
Not quite that simple. IMO the real problem is that neither party will listen to the other's views. After all, how many of cable believers here are prepared to admit that they may have been taken in. If only for the sake of their wallet I think they should at least try a objective/blind test. Some of the sceptics have at least been through stage and either genuinely can't hear much or any differences. This could be because either they are not as critical listeners or don't focus on sound and preferring to listen to music or they may actually be correct and there may not be significant differences. What I find annoying is the claim that A is x% better than B. How can you say this without any measurements? And exactly what was measured?

Edit: plus what Chris said above.
Click to expand...

Not quite the true picture Dev, because the whole debate begins from a one sided view.

The objectivists actively invade our pleasures in the hobby without an invitation to begin with and without any measure of respect for our views - they are RIGHT from the starting gun each and every time, followed by endless intransigence thereafter. When they start throwing words like "delusional" into their armoury then that is I say offensive and any right minded person will be offended when their own perceptions are telling them otherwise in a tangible, consistent and repeatable manner, hence the justified retaliation. It wouldn't be half so bad if there was a grain of truth in what they say and can prove it, but it's being used in an adversarial manner to bolster their own misguided point of view and not in a constructive manner to further the debate, so we can see right through the charade.

If that wasn't bad enough, then we get assaulted with accusations of seeing fairies at the end of the garden, sighting apparitions and ghosts, believing in weird religions, dancing goblins, healing with bits of twig and numerous other irrelevant insults from people that are allegedly "intelligent". You may think you know much in your chosen fields, but you know absolutely NOTHING whatsoever about the mindset of other people.

The subjectivists on the other hand have a very relaxed approach and say "Try it, if it's not for you then fine". No pressure, no obligations, there are more than enough dealers and vendors who will let you try it at home for you to decide at your leisure, no penalties either if you decide it isn't for you.

We are pure subjectivists enjoying a purely subjective hobby which I feel has no real place for tightwad narrow minded miserable measurement crazed loonies taking out their own personal issues on those that have but this one innocent pleasure in life because you are ruining it slowly. If you want to measure and test everything to death then that is your prerogative to do so, but do it in private, be smug about it in private and don't get on your soapbox and preach about it's the one and only righteous path for us all to tread.
 
melorib said:
I know very well it is not that simple, otherwise this topic would be dead long time ago... ;)

The first problem is that group 1. starts by calling those that dont share the same opinion "believers" wich is an obvious insult...

Second, they call them liars, yes, liars, if you say you heard something and I say you are deluded, there is nothing to be heard, I am calling you a liar, or maybe insane, the same. Even worst, they say they hear differences, but the others dont...

As for better and worst, they are personal opinions, what is the problem, we have personal opinions about everything, should I call you names if you say that Mozart is better than Bach, or the opposite... :confused:
Click to expand...

Well put, Antonio, now all you have to do is practise what you preach :D

audio objectivists, on the other hand, are proud of not hearing well, odd...
Click to expand...
 
Stereo Mic said:
No. It means that most living rooms are acoustically more sound that the average stripped out hotel room. It also shows just how important the room is when you consider the price differentials.

Zanash. I grow realy tired of your waffle as do many others from my PM inbox.

Platalloy is not trademarked so if I choose to use that and terms like Metalogy to highlight the BS and marketing that surrounds the snake oil salesman I will. Now have you come up with any of that evidence we requested yet, or did you just feel like interjecting with a few rather pathetic jibes - your sword no doubt blunted by having to abide by the AUP for once?

In answer to your question, I use Townsend Isolda throughout my system, along with freebies for interconnects. I have them because I can buy them at a good price and sell at a profit. The impedence matching of the Isolda is (I am sure you are aware) very clearly measurable.
Click to expand...

tut tut.....temper....

get your facts right platalloy is just a made name like ford escort , or isolda.

There are of course no isolda's in isolda cable in the same way there are no platalloy's in the platalloy cable as its just a name ...

do you get it now or do I have to spell it out in single syllable words

townsend isoda now that's a very good cable with a clear sonic advantage over a great many cables on the market ....

I find it very difficult to understand why have you gone to the great expense of using this, if all cables sound the same .... as you have told everyone ad naseum. Either you believe what you say ie any old bit of wire will do or you don't believe your own "facts" and have bought a sector leader at considerable expence just to make certain incase the cable huggers are right .

Sorry does not add up from which ever way you look at it imo...

Oh... and at least you've got the bottle to the forum what your using..unlike mosfet !
 
coops said:
Hand winding would affect the price, and the sound no doubt, but there would be no no need to use silver wire, it seems the whole Kondo 'myth' is based on foo foo.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. It's hopeless junk that anyone with half a brain can hear is utterly overrated:)
 
Keith. I like those cables & the cartridges, pre-amps etc. All undoubtedly based on foo foo:) However I'm sure what they really do must be measurable and may not even be 'correct' but I'm not really that bothered. It works for me. If & when I find something that I prefer I'd have no compunction about changing. It just hasn't happened yet.
 
Ok, pick a side, any side...
BEDEVERE:
Tell me. What do you do with witches?
VILLAGER #2:
Burn!
VILLAGER #1:
Burn!
CROWD:
Burn! Burn them up! Burn!...
BEDEVERE:
And what do you burn apart from witches?
VILLAGER #1:
More witches!
VILLAGER #3:
Shh!
VILLAGER #2:
Wood!
BEDEVERE:
So, why do witches burn?
[pause]
VILLAGER #3:
B--... 'cause they're made of... wood?
BEDEVERE:
Good! Heh heh.
CROWD:
Oh, yeah. Oh.
BEDEVERE:
So, how do we tell whether she is made of wood?
VILLAGER #1:
Build a bridge out of her.
BEDEVERE:
Ah, but can you not also make bridges out of stone?
VILLAGER #1:
Oh, yeah.
RANDOM:
Oh, yeah. True. Uhh...
BEDEVERE:
Does wood sink in water?
VILLAGER #1:
No. No.
VILLAGER #2:
No, it floats! It floats!
VILLAGER #1:
Throw her into the pond!
CROWD:
The pond! Throw her into the pond!
BEDEVERE:
What also floats in water?
VILLAGER #1:
Bread!
VILLAGER #2:
Apples!
VILLAGER #3:
Uh, very small rocks!
VILLAGER #1:
Cider!
VILLAGER #2:
Uh, gra-- gravy!
VILLAGER #1:
Cherries!
VILLAGER #2:
Mud!
VILLAGER #3:
Uh, churches! Churches!
VILLAGER #2:
Lead! Lead!
ARTHUR:
A duck!
CROWD:
Oooh.
BEDEVERE:
Exactly. So, logically...
VILLAGER #1:
If... she... weighs... the same as a duck,... she's made of wood.
BEDEVERE:
And therefore?
VILLAGER #2:
A witch!
VILLAGER #1:
A witch!
CROWD:
A witch! A witch!...
 
cooky1257 said:
I've just priced Townsend Isolda-£50/m F*** me!
Mike you've made me feel I may have been conned for spending £6/m!!!:)
I was hoping for some B&Q level expenditure as a route to science based nirvana.
I'm traumatised now -It's,.... it's,....like findind out... my mum and dad...have ....sex.:D
Click to expand...

In a system context it's nothing. Every year I get a new set and sell on the other - making a healthy profit every time. After six years, I think my current runs actually stand me in a minus £140 - so very cheap indeed. Sorry to upset you guys.

And it sounds different anyway. It also measures differently. This is a problem that some (not you BTW) don't seem to be able to understand. Measure different = possibly sound different. Measure same = sound same. Simple enough?

So Zanash, going to provide this cable for testing then or continue wasting bandwidth?
 
Stereo Mic said:
And it sounds different anyway. It also measures differently. This is a problem that some (not you BTW) don't seem to be able to understand. Measure different = possibly sound different. Measure same = sound same. Simple enough?
Click to expand...


Mike, are there not cheaper cables available, with good quality connectors, that measure similarly or equally to the Isolda?

David.
 
Stereo Mic said:
In a system context it's nothing. Every year I get a new set and sell on the other - making a healthy profit every time. After six years, I think my current runs actually stand me in a minus £140 - so very cheap indeed. Sorry to upset you guys.

And it sounds different anyway. It also measures differently. This is a problem that some (not you BTW) don't seem to be able to understand. Measure different = possibly sound different. Measure same = sound same. Simple enough?

So Zanash, going to provide this cable for testing then or continue wasting bandwidth?
Click to expand...

Thank you for clearing that up for us. Despite the fact that there are a massive number of variables in something as simple as using a cable and that we have very little understanding of the complexities of the interactions between components and cables, let alone having the ability to thoroughly test them you can still absolutely definitely state:

"Measure different = possibly sound different. Measure same = sound same. Simple enough?"

Have you ever considered working for NASA because that is where all the brilliant scientists work?

For the record, I don't care how a cable measures (or any of my hifi for that matter); all I care about is how it sounds to me.

Ian
 
i.j.russell said:
Thank you for clearing that up for us. Despite the fact that there are a massive number of variables in something as simple as using a cable and that we have very little understanding of the complexities of the interactions between components and cables, let alone having the ability to thoroughly test them you can still absolutely definitely state:

"Measure different = possibly sound different. Measure same = sound same. Simple enough?"

Have you ever considered working for NASA because that is where all the brilliant scientists work?

For the record, I don't care how a cable measures (or any of my hifi for that matter); all I care about is how it sounds to me.

Ian
Click to expand...

Sorry Ian but this is a classic example of what I and others are trying to correct.

For the umteenth time, there's no evidence of any of these "massive number of variables" that you talk about, if there were it might be worth investigating. It seems if the subjective boys can get that into their heads it helps them understand the rest.

And in closing, the classice subjective response. If all you care about is how it sounds to you (As I do I might add) then come and take a blind test of two electrically similar cables and tell the forum which you prefer the sound of.
 
If you like the sound of a particular cable ,Mike can supply it, from stock.
 
Mike, Hi.

Strange, you feel the need to make money selling what many would consider to be an unnecessarily expensive and exotic cable, Isolda, as you do not appear to be that poor.

Even though you claim to make a healthy profit on it, I find it rather baffling that you would even touch, let alone use such an expensive cable yourself, bearing in mind your entrenched position on ZG.

Stereo Mic said:
The scientific community say that any audible differences between cables are explainable be large differences in their LCR characteristics. If no such differences exist, the claim audible differences are imaginary and disappear under controlled conditions as has been repeatedly proven in tests carried out on numerous occasions - many of which can be viewed on line...
..At this time, there is ZERO evidence to counter that position,
Click to expand...


Surely, as a matter of principle, wouldn't it be more appropriate to use something cheaper, which measures similarly? You'd make even MORE profit selling the Isolda unused, I'd presume.

Why use it when you firmly believe that that the sale and use of expensive cables is a joke and scam, on the level of divining rods?

Stereo Mic said:
It will become incredibly tiresome for me to have to list all of the world's top studios that use simple, decent quality copper cable and quality connectors won't it so can we stop the sillyness? If you take Mastersound in New York it's all basic Van Damme with Neutrik connectors. The main requirements were reliability and consistency. As they are just about everywhere.
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top