zerogain name change -hi fi rage

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melorib said:
Most people are proud of what they excell in, positively, like seeing very well, having a great sense of taste, etc, audio objectivists, on the other hand, are proud of not hearing well, odd... :newbie:
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I don't think its really a case of that - but there is a divide on people who say that there are big differences between cheap cables and more expensive ones etc - it's like religion, once a decision is made - they seldom change their minds... which I suppose is fair enough, but it's when they continually criticise/mock others then that is what I'm not a great fan of...
 
Most people are proud of what they excell in, positively, like seeing very well, having a great sense of taste, etc

wacky!
 
mr cat said:
I don't think its really a case of that - but there is a divide on people who say that there are big differences between cheap cables and more expensive ones etc - it's like religion, once a decision is made - they seldom change their minds... which I suppose is fair enough, but it's when they continually criticise/mock others then that is what I'm not a great fan of...
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I dont think it's a case of that either.

The two sides of the arguement are..
1) cable differences can be explained by LCR. Any change to dialetic, cable, plugs etc which is audible has changed the LCR.
vs 2) There's more to it than that, there's stuff we don't know about cables and how they work you can't measure it.


The two arguements are diametrically opposed, hence the disagreements.
 
melorib said:
Most people are proud of what they excell in, positively, like seeing very well, having a great sense of taste, etc, audio objectivists, on the other hand, are proud of not hearing well, odd... :newbie:
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Not quite that simple. IMO the real problem is that neither party will listen to the other's views. After all, how many of cable believers here are prepared to admit that they may have been taken in. If only for the sake of their wallet I think they should at least try a objective/blind test. Some of the sceptics have at least been through stage and either genuinely can't hear much or any differences. This could be because either they are not as critical listeners or don't focus on sound and preferring to listen to music or they may actually be correct and there may not be significant differences. What I find annoying is the claim that A is x% better than B. How can you say this without any measurements? And exactly what was measured?

Edit: plus what Chris said above.
 
what is REALLY required by all and sundry in my view, is that people take a step back, AND DONT TAKE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT HIFI PERSONALLY.

It's only hifi, the stuff you play music on in your lounge. Personal insults, name calling, bullying, agression etc are all over the top.

Mods will take action soon if we don't see an urgent sea change.
 
melorib said:
If my systems sound better than those on the audioshows, it means I handle "room acoustics" at least better than them, as their kit is usually better/more expensive than mine, wouldnt you agree... :confused:
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No. It means that most living rooms are acoustically more sound that the average stripped out hotel room. It also shows just how important the room is when you consider the price differentials.

Zanash. I grow realy tired of your waffle as do many others from my PM inbox.

Platalloy is not trademarked so if I choose to use that and terms like Metalogy to highlight the BS and marketing that surrounds the snake oil salesman I will. Now have you come up with any of that evidence we requested yet, or did you just feel like interjecting with a few rather pathetic jibes - your sword no doubt blunted by having to abide by the AUP for once?

In answer to your question, I use Townsend Isolda throughout my system, along with freebies for interconnects. I have them because I can buy them at a good price and sell at a profit. The impedence matching of the Isolda is (I am sure you are aware) very clearly measurable.
 
Kondo San's work no more than snake oil, ART and Audio Note re-wiring their speakers in silver just phooey then?
 
Keith,

What are the LCR charateristics of the different versions? It's not simply a case of comparing one material with another of equal value is it?

We've an offer on the table to do that, but Zanash appears to have sidestepped that one so far....
 
Makes sense to me:)
Any fundamentalism is well mentalism:)
I don't even think it boils down to 2 camps more like 3
1.Cables are all the same.
2.Cable differences can be explained by LCR parameters.
3. The camp I'm in:D which is 90% of [2.] and the other 10% the open minded notion that measurement parameters not yet discovered, identified or applied to either the wire itself or/and the brain/ear.
Note I am not saying it is a way to explain 'betterness' just perceived difference.
Why I feel open to this extra possibilty is IME sometimes my system sounds crap, dissappointing, just not happening.
I can trace these occasions to when I'm under the cosh at work, things playing on my mind, the pressures of life.
So human disposition has a lot to do with perception.
My system hasn't changed it's me.
So I do wonder though if the white knuckled 'I'm bloody right' attitude is conducive to hearing subtle changes.
Open mind closed wallet -can't fail:D
 
I thought we had determined that cable differences were down to LCR , and that the conductor had no 'sound' of it's own, ( I am inclined to agree btw ) but doesn't that mean that all those silver caps, all that silver wire in Kondo /An/ Art is just marketing bullshit, as for thirty year old 'aged' copper wire!!!
 
coops said:
... but doesn't that mean that all those silver caps, all that silver wire in Kondo /An/ Art is just marketing bullshit, as for thirty year old 'aged' copper wire!!!
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Not necessarily. IIRC Kondo caps/inductors were hand wound, which possibly had an effect on sound and almost certainly on price.
 
I've just priced Townsend Isolda-£50/m F*** me!
Mike you've made me feel I may have been conned for spending £6/m!!!:)
I was hoping for some B&Q level expenditure as a route to science based nirvana.
I'm traumatised now -It's,.... it's,....like findind out... my mum and dad...have ....sex.:D
 
Hand winding would affect the price, and the sound no doubt, but there would be no no need to use silver wire, it seems the whole Kondo 'myth' is based on foo foo.
 
Dev said:
Not quite that simple. IMO the real problem is that neither party will listen to the other's views. After all, how many of cable believers here are prepared to admit that they may have been taken in. If only for the sake of their wallet I think they should at least try a objective/blind test. Some of the sceptics have at least been through stage and either genuinely can't hear much or any differences. This could be because either they are not as critical listeners or don't focus on sound and preferring to listen to music or they may actually be correct and there may not be significant differences. What I find annoying is the claim that A is x% better than B. How can you say this without any measurements? And exactly what was measured?

Edit: plus what Chris said above.
Click to expand...

I know very well it is not that simple, otherwise this topic would be dead long time ago... ;)

The first problem is that group 1. starts by calling those that dont share the same opinion "believers" wich is an obvious insult...

Second, they call them liars, yes, liars, if you say you heard something and I say you are deluded, there is nothing to be heard, I am calling you a liar, or maybe insane, the same. Even worst, they say they hear differences, but the others dont...

As for better and worst, they are personal opinions, what is the problem, we have personal opinions about everything, should I call you names if you say that Mozart is better than Bach, or the opposite... :confused:
 
Antonio, I've just noticed your signature and can't help thinking that ironically perhaps it best sums up the believers and sceptics.
 
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