2 Power kords needed

A fair point of view garyi - there always has to be a point at which you stop spending money on the kit and start to spend it on music instead. Of all the things you mentioned though I think that power cords and mains conditioning have by far the greatest effect. I've heard huge differences with them whereas the differences I've heard from different (analogue) interconnects and supports/isolation etc were at best subtle and often none at all.

I'd rank "accessories" in the following order of the difference they have made in my system (starting with the greatest):

- power cords
- digital ICs
- speaker cable
- analog ICs
- racks/supports/isolation

Michael.

 

The differences brought about by isolation platforms, mains cables, etc are not subtle.

As has been mentioned, cables like the Eupen and the more expensive mains cables act like a low-pass filter, and remove a great deal of rfi junk.

Personally I'd put things in a different order to michael. In dino's system at the bake-off I thought that the £200 seismic sink made a world of difference, and was, for me, the best VFM upgrade of the day. Certainly more significant than many box changes would have been.

I used to be significantly sceptical of power cords and isolation systems and such and so forth. Now I've heard serious differences, and to that end I have a trichord powerblock, Eupens and a custom-designed rack now. Certainly that lot turned my system about significantly.

Of course, you may choose to disbelieve it and not to spend any of your money on such things. But please don't tell those of us who have heard and understand and appreciate the difference that we don't know what we're about.

 

Stand by for Internet therorist and self appointed Professor of all things earthy Paul 'the pitbull' Ranson your reply sir............

 

But if I have a system that is considerably better than yours yet cost considerably less, doesn't need the same money again spent on mains leads or other wires, or secret sect 'modifications' just plugs into the wall and works, who's the muppet?

FWIW if a component is radiating down its mains lead such that a special cable is required to suppress it, or is susceptible to interference picked up on its mains cable, then it is poorly engineered and quite possibly not CE compliant. At the very least it should be supplied with a suitable mains lead. And, regardless, screened mains cable doesn't cost that much. £2 a metre for well over the top stuff from RS for example.

Paul

 

Paul I am but disappointed, should have done better, a poor effort, your superior snide was sadly absent, the masterful aloofiness and arragance is missing? oh woe is me, a bad reply is all I deserve, Tis me gutted, I'm not worthy of lenghty self special put downs, how can I appease you?
as for this...........

But if I have a system that is considerably better than yours yet cost considerably less, doesn't need the same money again spent on mains leads or other wires, or secret sect 'modifications' just plugs into the wall and works, who's the muppet?

Keep dreaming Gonzo

 

My my, this Paul chaps a one isn't he

I take it he is a representative of the Salisbury Flock

Which of course would explain his opinions, after all, to be fair to Naim, they do design in things like regulated power supplies, damping and isolation and RF shielding as standard.

For me it's a shame they apply this thinking to what must be a pretty crap base product, as the result of all this standardised tweakery is to make a naff product into something half decent. At a stupid cost mind

Now we on the other hand are able to select tweakery from any source and can take advantage of a greater pool of knowledge. Plus we are starting from a base line of very decent hifi in the first place. The result is product which improves considerably on Salisbury's finest to most ears.

Still, mains cables, Powerblocks etc will not offer much to the Naim user in terms of improvement. Large scale component upgrades are required for that

 

You've never heard my system in my room, I've heard yours in your room. Who's dreaming?

And of course I have no tacit commercial interest in audiophoolery.

Paul

 

Paul - that's below the belt WM has never posted in any way to even raise the slightest issue of a conflict of interest. In any case, we're talking about power cords here and Omiga Audio have nothing to do with power cords

What's more, he's just one of many here who use power cords and mains treatments and find they make a HUGE difference. Why Naimees don't like them or why they are regarded as not "flat earth" I don't know. As for muppets, anyone shelling out thousands for external power supplies (Naim XPS @ £2300 RRP ) when significantly cheaper and better alternatives are available qualifies in my book :MILD: In that respect Naim has taken audiophoolery to new heights, getting people to buy power conditioners in a fancy box for 10 times what they're worth I'd be surprised if the total cost of all of WMs "power" mods came to the cost of a new XPS.

Michael.

 

Paul

For the greater good, perhaps you would care to tell us exactly what components you've spent considerably less than WM on that sound considerably better? I'm sure that a great many of us who have heard Tone's system would be interested to know.

 

Paul,

Instead of dropping into the forum just to post confrontational and antagonistic garbage, would you kindly expand on just why items such those we are discussing are unnecessary, why they cannot improve the performance of electronics, and what constitutes properly designed hifi

I am sure your "expert" opinions would be most welcome

 

ok,
reading some of the previous posts it seems as though some are claiming that power cords are a universal panacaea for all hi-fi ills. they aren't of course but they can work well with certain kit. i've heard tony's gear both with and without the trick mains cords he uses (not the current ones) and there was a definite improvement in both round AND flat qualities. i've also had several respected power cords tried on my own kit and without fail they have been detrimental - to my ears although others opinions differ.
i wouldn't tar all naim lovers with the anti power brush as about 30% of posts on the naim forum are about fuses, new spurs, power blocks or hydras. the thing is that naim seems to be a bit more fussy about what you plug into it power wise and that naim themselves have done a good job selecting an apropriate power cable for their kit.
cheers

julian

 

Ju, Has a fair point here, there are one of 2 more earthy members on this, have actually preformed mains tweeks to the Naim kit, whilst stunchly 'giving it the Elbow' but they have notice a difference.
Paul, I have made no reference to any O/A products at all, in this thread about power leads (we don't make em), I would like to point out that on the pancake forum, 47 memebers would have jumped to Avondales defence of a APX4 at this point, closely followed by Mr Parrys cute putdown, then a pleathera of interchanges.
WM's power mods cost less than a new hi-cap. Paul runs Linn. active Briks (Bi-amped I think) with a (linn Ikemi?/Genki?) Trans/Dac plus a LP12 with various bits and pieces.
I have said before on many a power thread the Naim equipment, is most piccky as to what it likes and doesn't, and most convential leads/conditioners will have a Negative effect, though not all.

 

Yes they are. In some cases, so subtle, I cant tell the difference

 

My take on this, having heard a few posh kettle lead tests is one of three things happens, depending on circumstance:

(a) There is no significant difference to the stock lead

(b) There is a subtle difference, but too small to reliably identify which lead is which

(c) There is a noticeable difference, but it's not clear - to me at least - that it's an improvement. It's just different. It may sound like an improvement in the moment (often the music gets fractionally louder, I've noticed, and we all know how that can make any of us think something's better). Different <> Better. In all honesty, I've never heard a posh kettle lead make things unambiguously better. YMMV.

-- Ian

 

A couple of quick questions on upgraded power leads:

1. If, like me, you are using something like this:



i.e. an inexpensive anti-surge 8 gang extension block (needed in order to provide a socket for the various units in my cabinet) then are you going to get any benefit by running an expensive power lead from this 8 gang to the unit in question (processor/DVD player etc)?

2. Could you not get a commercial/industrial (i.e. not hifi) company to build you a top quality power lead for a fraction of the price that Mr Andrews and his contemporaries charge?

Finally, (and I know there's not a lot of logic in this as I wouldn't dream of using the crappy interconnects that are sometimes supplied with CD players etc.) should we not expect a decent piece of hifi to come complete with a power lead that will allow it to perform to it's maximum potential?

I mean, if you bought a new Impreza WRX you would expect it to come fitted with a decent set of tyres not with a set of cross-plies that you would have to immediately change!

Matt.

 

Matt, try www.the-missing-link.net

They make all sorts of cables but also offer the materials on their own so that you can build them yourself .

Oh, and Linn supply their own interconnects. They're good but hardly outstanding.

 

How can a simple statement of fact be 'below the belt'? FWIW I don't know that Omiga Audio have nothing to do with power cords, Tony seems pretty up on what's on the market, he would be a strange sort of business person if he didn't have something in the pipeline.

Paul

 

It's a Linn Aktiv Isobarik system. You could reproduce it for about £3000 including CDP without too much trouble. £3700 with entry level WM approved mains wire.

IMO the sound of Tony's system is pretty much defined and limited by his room. I really wasn't expecting a Linn system to do much better stereo, that's supposed to be what a 'round' system is good at. The bass is better left unmentioned....

You're welcome to come for a listen. Tuesday afternoons are currently favoured.

Paul

 

Your implication was that Tony is posting his views on power cords merely to further his own agenda, and not based on his listening experiences and that, furthermore, your views somehow hold more water because you claim not to have any commercial interest in the audio market.

It was a snide comment that was unnecessary. Tony has always been scrupulous in the extreme when commenting on things where he has even the remotest commercial interest.

Michael.

 

Chortle. You've never actually tried out Mana in your own system, have you Michael?