2 Power kords needed
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wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
James another crumb for you, Mine isn't the best I've heard either, not by a long way
The Devil
IHTFP
Hi Michael,
Different strokes for deaf folks? Only joking. I would urge you in the strongest terms to at least give it a go. It's the biggest improvement I've ever experienced in over twenty years of hi-fi tomfoolery. I had no idea that hi-fi could sound so clear before Mana.
People who say that it exaggerates the leading edge (attack) of a note are plain wrong: other stands smother the leading edge. If your ears are used to an inferior stand, it's a revelation.
You could always buy s/h. If you don't like it (unlikely but I suppose anything is possible) you'll get your money back.
It seems perverse to not try such a highly-rated product. I know that there are few, if any, magazine reviews of it these days, but this is probably because it is no longer a new thing, and the mags want to review the flavour of the month stuff. There are plenty of old reviews on the Mana website - and they are all very accurate.
Different strokes for deaf folks? Only joking. I would urge you in the strongest terms to at least give it a go. It's the biggest improvement I've ever experienced in over twenty years of hi-fi tomfoolery. I had no idea that hi-fi could sound so clear before Mana.
People who say that it exaggerates the leading edge (attack) of a note are plain wrong: other stands smother the leading edge. If your ears are used to an inferior stand, it's a revelation.
You could always buy s/h. If you don't like it (unlikely but I suppose anything is possible) you'll get your money back.
It seems perverse to not try such a highly-rated product. I know that there are few, if any, magazine reviews of it these days, but this is probably because it is no longer a new thing, and the mags want to review the flavour of the month stuff. There are plenty of old reviews on the Mana website - and they are all very accurate.
The Devil
IHTFP
Hi Alex. Rubbish back with knobs on.
wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
Alex, have you got a date for you and Tom (Happy birthday BTW, nearly a kicking Jerry too) for a visit sir? WM
michaelab
desafinado
James - I hear what you say and I'm sure that you and others who've had the Mana "epiphany" are not making it up and that you are hearing real and incredible differences however, for the hassle involved in getting to try it out here in Portugal it isn't worth it for me.
I've tried other things on spec, usually though after the strong recommendations of friends who's opinions I trust. None of my "hifi" friends (all people I've met in person and who's systems I've listened to) have particularly strong opinions on any kind of racking or isolation so I'm not willing to go out on a limb to try it.
If that's my loss, then so be it. I'm very happy with my system as it is anyway
Michael.
I've tried other things on spec, usually though after the strong recommendations of friends who's opinions I trust. None of my "hifi" friends (all people I've met in person and who's systems I've listened to) have particularly strong opinions on any kind of racking or isolation so I'm not willing to go out on a limb to try it.
If that's my loss, then so be it. I'm very happy with my system as it is anyway
Michael.
This message deliberately blanked...
Paul
Paul
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julian2002
Muper Soderator
michael,
even though i rate mana along with bmw's as perhaps the most overrated thing on the planet (i just had to with both you and bub in the picture
). Yes bub i have heard it in a decent system albeit not mine.
i'm sure that as you are back and forth so much between the uk and portugal, something could be worked out with jw on a trial basis - he does seem to be a quite reasonable bloke as i'm sure bub will testify. just watch the leather in your bimmer those spikes are murder.
just a thought.
cheers
julian
even though i rate mana along with bmw's as perhaps the most overrated thing on the planet (i just had to with both you and bub in the picture
). Yes bub i have heard it in a decent system albeit not mine.i'm sure that as you are back and forth so much between the uk and portugal, something could be worked out with jw on a trial basis - he does seem to be a quite reasonable bloke as i'm sure bub will testify. just watch the leather in your bimmer those spikes are murder.
just a thought.
cheers
julian
michaelab
desafinado
No - it isn't. Apologies Paul - I've edited my post.
Michael.
michaelab
desafinado
I'm sure that something could be arranged but it's just too much hassle IMO. In any case I'm about to have to pay a huge tax bill (Portuguese) so I'm completely skint for the next 2-3 months. Maybe in the new year I'll think about it if only so I can claim to have tried it
Michael.
OK. We can start within the constraints of your kit, if you like.
And back to abuse.
'uncoloured, natural midrange', 'detailed sweet treble', 'neutral balance'. None of these descriptions could possibly have applied to the WM system last December. Possibly it has changed character since, but since I believe the main limitation is his room and that appears (from recent photos) not to have changed I have some doubts.
FWIW, and this should be another thread, I don't understand what 'sweet detailed treble' means, or whether 'uncoloured natural' is a tautology or not.
Paul
julian2002
Muper Soderator
fair enough michael.
it seems that part of this hobby is the search for the audio equivalent of the philosiphers stone to turn a base system into a golden one. many claim to have found it either in the form of humble green pens or mysical sprays for conectors, others eulogise about bits of wire still more preach the way of the stand. me i'm of the opinion that if you want gold you have to buy gold in the first place. of course there is no point in buying gold if it's platinum you want and no amount of rubbing, wiring or standing will change this. all imho of course.
cheers
julian
it seems that part of this hobby is the search for the audio equivalent of the philosiphers stone to turn a base system into a golden one. many claim to have found it either in the form of humble green pens or mysical sprays for conectors, others eulogise about bits of wire still more preach the way of the stand. me i'm of the opinion that if you want gold you have to buy gold in the first place. of course there is no point in buying gold if it's platinum you want and no amount of rubbing, wiring or standing will change this. all imho of course.
cheers
julian
Of course I believe you, the question is whether it matters, and where it matters. In the case of my CDP it uses an SMPS so that has to be factored in.
I'd like to try the cables...
I'm interested in the 'truth' of the source material, I have two speakers, when I play stereo material I want an image that relates to what's on the recording. Usually these are 'flat', such is technology.
FWIW given the nature of your power amp, have you tried using 'Eupen' cable to your speakers?
Paul
I-S
Good Evening.... Infidel
Eupen would be horrifically bad as speaker cable, as it is a low pass filter.
Low pass at what frequency?
There's a complete lack of actual data on the Audusa web site, which is rather typical. The Eupen web site itself has a graph of attenuation in dB/m cable length against frequency (for all cable types) that starts at 1MHz and where nothing happens until 5MHz.
This cable won't help Tony's amp at all since it's switching frequency is much less than 5MHz. OTOH it isn't a low pass cable at audio frequencies, a similar measurement for a typical audio cable would be very interesting.... Anyway sorry for the suggestion.
FWIW from the Eupen data I'm not convinced it's of any value as a mains cord, it only really starts to work above 200MHz and you need long lengths, the more metres the better. Perhaps this is why the text on Audusa is lifted from Eupen but they omitted the graph?
Paul
There's a complete lack of actual data on the Audusa web site, which is rather typical. The Eupen web site itself has a graph of attenuation in dB/m cable length against frequency (for all cable types) that starts at 1MHz and where nothing happens until 5MHz.
This cable won't help Tony's amp at all since it's switching frequency is much less than 5MHz. OTOH it isn't a low pass cable at audio frequencies, a similar measurement for a typical audio cable would be very interesting.... Anyway sorry for the suggestion.
FWIW from the Eupen data I'm not convinced it's of any value as a mains cord, it only really starts to work above 200MHz and you need long lengths, the more metres the better. Perhaps this is why the text on Audusa is lifted from Eupen but they omitted the graph?
Paul
wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
Strange that Paul, twas a good improvement over the stock power chord, again you see the theroy v's practice, also the lenghts here, I do agree with some of the theroy, however we had eupens of all lengths, from 2 feet to 8 feet, on the amps that were used for testing, little or no audiable difference were detected, to the listening panel, which didn't include myself or Timpy.
Have tried over 20 power cables on the B/c, with results ranging from a crippling of the sound to a almost a box swop.
The belcanto is a very fast and transparent amplifer, that doesn't use SMPS, however I found inital results with power chords better with FRI interfrerence rejection charactoristics, improved dynamics, more open sound, better scale and slam, upon making internal psu mods, the emphesis shifted to more cleaner faster current deliverly, (which goes against the theroy here), now I use an open juice tap, after common mode removal. the results are some what well pleasing.
CDP's are a lot more diverse, some a straight high current chord words wonders (with out removing the lid) I suspect a lot of attention has been paid to psu seperation and good regualtion and quality caps and bridges, others need as much mains shite removed before giving their true preformance.
We have spent time money effort and patients in the area, trying to find what ticks, it takes time and trouble, it throws up some very interesting and totaly unexpected results from time to time.
Paul, maybe the 5v sipply rail to the dsp chipset, may not what you expect it to be, hence a lot of the results we achieve, we do have very sophistacted measuring equipment and software to 'accquire' our data, and it is tested on a very wide range of kit and mains outlets in over 15 different places throught the county, so our data and corroalations are quite accurate.
Things have moved way beyond simple cable swops Paul.
One other little gem, frame/'e' type laminated multi core transformers, can produce upto 40 times more rfi, than torrodials, coupled with a smps, I feel this doesn't help matters. WM
Have tried over 20 power cables on the B/c, with results ranging from a crippling of the sound to a almost a box swop.
The belcanto is a very fast and transparent amplifer, that doesn't use SMPS, however I found inital results with power chords better with FRI interfrerence rejection charactoristics, improved dynamics, more open sound, better scale and slam, upon making internal psu mods, the emphesis shifted to more cleaner faster current deliverly, (which goes against the theroy here), now I use an open juice tap, after common mode removal. the results are some what well pleasing.
CDP's are a lot more diverse, some a straight high current chord words wonders (with out removing the lid) I suspect a lot of attention has been paid to psu seperation and good regualtion and quality caps and bridges, others need as much mains shite removed before giving their true preformance.
We have spent time money effort and patients in the area, trying to find what ticks, it takes time and trouble, it throws up some very interesting and totaly unexpected results from time to time.
Paul, maybe the 5v sipply rail to the dsp chipset, may not what you expect it to be, hence a lot of the results we achieve, we do have very sophistacted measuring equipment and software to 'accquire' our data, and it is tested on a very wide range of kit and mains outlets in over 15 different places throught the county, so our data and corroalations are quite accurate.
Things have moved way beyond simple cable swops Paul.
One other little gem, frame/'e' type laminated multi core transformers, can produce upto 40 times more rfi, than torrodials, coupled with a smps, I feel this doesn't help matters. WM
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bottleneck
talks a load of rubbish
In our little forum world, items like leads - especially power leads, hifi supports and other tweaks split opinion and cause debate.
When that leads to personal abuse between people who have known each other for years its sad and a little depressing.
Im not speaking to any individual here - but if (anyone) cant accept a difference of opinion without slipping into childish name-calling then they should not post.
honestly .
:SLEEP:
When that leads to personal abuse between people who have known each other for years its sad and a little depressing.
Im not speaking to any individual here - but if (anyone) cant accept a difference of opinion without slipping into childish name-calling then they should not post.
honestly .
:SLEEP:I was considering it as a speaker cable for a Class D output stage, not just as a power cable.
This implies that the perceived effect with Eupens isn't down to suppression of RFI by the cable, given this effect is proportional to length and you tried a wide range. Which is useful information.
Paul
Originally posted by bottleneck
In our little forum world, items like leads - especially power leads, hifi supports and other tweaks split opinion and cause debate.
When that leads to personal abuse between people who have known each other for years its sad and a little depressing.
Im not speaking to any individual here - but if (anyone) cant accept a difference of opinion without slipping into childish name-calling then they should not post.
honestly .
I really should not post I agree
However, I would love to debate ths issue.
To begin with, do you accept that, most digital electronics emit RFI? if so, are you aware of the radiation pattern and potency of these stray fields? Would you also concur that most analogue equpment, particularly off board PS, are affected by RFI and EMI?
Would it also be true that these radio waves are transmitted between components by the cabling employed? Do you accept that EMI has an adverse affect on perceived sound quality, and that RFI is typically emitted at differing frequencies from different components in the chain, such as SMPS and digital clocks?
You see, answering these kind of questions can lead to an intelligent debate. Posting dismissals quoting magic and foo foo dust is simply misleading and annoying.
So let's debate
