2nd hand CD player experimentations

Steve, any further nonsense from your chum will be met with 'extreme prejudice'.

Michael, yes don't worry, Steven & I are well-used to it. He may play with his wobbly plastic shelf if it makes him happy. Seems a harmless enough idea, in the scheme of things.
 
Oh well then I might as well weigh in :D

I don't have any experience of QS or Mana but from a purely aesthetic standpoint my view is that Mana, whilst hardly beautiful, is at least functional and minimalist. QS is just dog ugly :MILD:

Michael.
 
Your choice of hi-fi rack can have a greater influence on the overall sound /musical reproduction capabilities than any individual box component.

When I bought my QS Ref that I may be about to modify by using pespex shelves, I cared very little for how it may look in the grand scheme of furniture and current décor themes of fashion.

I couldn't care less if people think that my choice of stand is "pig ugly - I may even agree.

What is important to me is how much more music I can hear from my exising CD collection through a support modification that may transform my CD player into something that may cost a grand or so more.

Mana is for those who want to hear certain details from their CDs. My priorities are somewhat different, but we all hold equally valid opinions on such matters without the need for flaming.

Multi-phase Mana cannot be described as minimalistic when it is so imposing on a room in terms of its sheer presence.

However, if I felt it would work for my musical reproduction priorities I'd probably go with it.
 
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Originally posted by Steven Toy
Your choice of hi-fi rack can have a greater influence on the overall sound /musical reproduction capabilities than any individual box component.
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IME racks and support/isolation products have an influence that's subtle at best and often non-existent.

I really do wonder how people get sucked into the supports or cables myth (that they can make a bigger difference than box components) so convincingly :confused:

Michael.
 
Originally posted by michaelab
I really do wonder how people get sucked into the supports or cables myth (that they can make a bigger difference than box components) so convincingly :confused:
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Maybe because some people's combined spend on their rack and main component interconnect is far in excess of the cost of that component.
 
Hi Michael,

"I really do wonder how people get sucked into the supports or cables myth"

I wonder why so many people still have a box fetish?

I have compared the effect of putting in Mana stands with equipment on many occasions and always found the stands to have a bigger effect.

Having said all that they amplify what you have so if you like the sound already it will give you more of it. If changing a box gives you a very different sound that you prefer then it will have a more beneficial effect.

It is all down to where you are in building your system!

Ian
 
Originally posted by michaelab
IME racks and support/isolation products have an influence that's subtle at best and often non-existent.

I really do wonder how people get sucked into the supports or cables myth (that they can make a bigger difference than box components) so convincingly :confused:

Michael.
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Supports, well Mana anyway make huge musical gains Michael, especialy under source components and speakers, in some cases like under the LP12 or Isobariks, the difference is far more than any box could do, it's also different to what can be achieved from a box upgrade. In other words only Mana can achieve this type of upgrade, you can't do it with a box.

With regards to cables I agree with you for once!

Barnie.
 
As I said, that's not my experience. Under TT's I can see they could make a very significant difference allthough I haven't experienced it since I don't have a TT.

I've messed around with various racks and support solutions and never noticed a difference that I would regard as anything more than very subtle. Even when we tested a Seismic Sink under a CDP at a bakeoff some time ago I heard no significant difference.

I have a wooden rack made for me by a local carpenter to the measurements and design of the IsoBlue racks and I choose that design purely on aesthetic and practical grounds. Before I had the rack my stuff was stacked on the floor and in moving to a rack I noticed no difference.

Whilst Mana accolytes would all say "but Mana is different" I don't see any reason why it should be and I'm not prepared to go to the effort of trying it out since it will never pass the WAF test anyway.

Michael.
 
Originally posted by michaelab
Whilst Mana accolytes would all say "but Mana is different" I don't see any reason why it should be and I'm not prepared to go to the effort of trying it out since it will never pass the WAF test anyway.

Michael. [/B]
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Fair enough, but I beleive you're cutting off ya nose ta spite ya face on this one Michael.

When I recently went from Linn stands to phase 4 Mana under my briks the difference was huge! Bass lines with all their different tones where easily heard, top and mid where clearer and more defined with more detail ta boot, soundstage was improved along with a true outa the box presentation. More volume could be achieved without distortion.

Phase 4 Mana under my Briks provided me with the biggest single upgrade I have ever achieved in Hi-Fi, I've been into Hi-Fi for 25yrs!

I'm not an evangelist and if you wish to stick with your views, fair enough, but if you enjoy your music so much.... that you run a Hi-Fi forum, then you should at least be well informed.

Regards

Barnie.
 
Speaker stands can definitely make a surprisingly large difference IME. When I switched from high-mass Atacama stands to open-frame Kan stands under my ATCs, I was extremely surprised at how obvious the difference was. If I notice it, it must be big...

-- Ian
 
Ooh Ian, that's interesting. What sort of differences did you notice? With my 10s I had Atacama SE24s filled with sand (about 13kg each in total). When I moved up to some old, but very good Target stands (I believe R6 model, at £275 new) weighing 25kg each, I too was surprised by the rather obvious improvement. It seemed to "solidify" the soundstage, making instruments and voices sound much more stable and solid than before.

I'm curious to know what improvements you observed going the opposite route to low-mass stands?

Dunc
 
More tuneful bass, mainly, much easier to follow complex bass lines than it had been before, which helps to open out the midrange. Sprightlier. I'd never use them with heavy stands again.

If Lee and GrahamN hadn't been there to confirm the effect, I'd have imagined I was exaggerating it, but it honestly was, to use that hideous phrase, not subtle.

Try and get hold of a secondhand pair of Linn Sara stands for your 20s (they're probably too big for Kan stands). They don't cost much s/h, and it's definitely worth the experiment (my Kan stands cost me £25). If you don't like the effect, you'll be able to sell the stands on for what you paid. Pink Fish is a good place to pick up that sort of gear, a want to buy message in the classifieds should find you a pair.

I owe this discovery to Paul Duerden, btw, I would never have considered trying it without his prompting.

-- Ian
 
I dont think you can really generalise with speaker stands, I think you have to use a suck it and see approach.

My ProAc 1SCs work very well with heavy stands, I am using Target R4 four leg stands, filled with lead shot. They are very heavy - I reckon each stand weighs well in excess of 35 kg.

I think the stands are partly responsible for the surprisingly good bass I get out of the little ProAcs.

I would definately recommend investigating speaker stands further.
 
OK, I'll accept that supports are important for speakers aswell. My Dynaudios are on the dedicated (and not inexpensive!) stands that Dynaudio make for them (Stand2) and I'm more than happy with the results.

Michael.
 
Originally posted by Robbo
I dont think you can really generalise with speaker stands, I think you have to use a suck it and see approach.
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Absolutely, I wouldn't advocate open-frame stands for everything. What the experience proved, however, is that the manufacturer's own recommendation for stands, may not, in fact, give the best results. It's all down to personal taste, after all. Definitely an area worth experimenting with.

-- Ian
 

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