Amplifier musings

Get a nice second hand/new Bryston they make great sounding reliable gear IMHO... You could get a good pre/power for 3k.
Or a B60 Integrated and add a power amp later if required...all have taken surround into account and have pre out and ins....

 

Two off the wall suggestions...

1. how about ditching the arcam and the receiver and getting a Naim AV2 or Tag AV32/192. It should make the whole thing much simpler for your wife to operate.

2. Get an Audio Synthesis passive. Either the currently available Ultimate or the 8M (secondhand). I don't think that the Ultimate has balanced connections, but the 8M, I believe, does.

And a not so off the wall suggestion;

Look at BAT gear. There are some s/h 3i and 5i preamps around at the moment and both have unity gain. Also, if you want to head down the integrated route, the 300x should suit.

reg

 

It's not bad Michael, but definately "second rung". I have heard it sounding very pleasent with the smaller Dyns and it works well. The Dyns are however capable of so much more. Detail ain't great with the Primare, possibly the only major complaint for me.

Move up a rung though, even to the basic Classe stuff, and the Dyns wake up somewhat. You certainly wont be getting the maximum out of the Dac64 with the Primare, nor the Dyns for that matter.

You will however get something that sounds quite nice and does the basics right. Only you can decide of course, but please choose the likely candidates on Sonic grounds rather than fiscal ones.

 

Reg - going the high-end AV pre/processor option is something I've considered in the past but once you add in the fact that I'd then have to get a 3ch power amp for the rears and centre (or a 5ch power amp for the whole lot) it starts not to make such economic sense - allthough a 5ch. LC Audio ZAPPulse amp would be interesting...

Of course the other thing is that I'm dubious about the quality of AV processors as stereo pre-amps. Only the very top end have analogue bypass (ie, they don't do an A/D -> D/A conversion) and even then it's of questionable quality compared to a dedicated stereo pre.

Also there's the (perhaps silly) foibles I have about keeping AV and stereo separate. With an AV processor that's also my pre they become joined at the hip - something I don't know if I'd be comfortable with, however irrational that might be!

Michael.

 

Michael,

Fair enough on the AV stuff. But don't overlook those BATs. You can get a VK-3i for £750 and a VK-60 power amp for £2000. That's a cracking valve pre/power setup, fully balanced all the way and with enough juice for your speakers. If you want more in the future, you can always get another VK-60 and bridge the power amps for 120wpc.

reg

 

Thanks for your thoughts on the Primare, I'll definitely give it a listen.

As to your advice, that's all well and good but I have to set a limit. The absolute maximum is £3K and even then I'd have a serious job justifying that spend to myself (never mind the wife!). Sure, I could save and spend £5K but regardless of the sound I simply cannot justify spending that much on an amplifier.

Michael.

 

Thanks Reg - I hadn't heard much about BAT but I'll bear them in mind when I'm looking

Michael.

 

Michael,

I hear what you are saying, I just don't think that setting a price is the way to musical enjoyment long term. It's the way the industry survives, by encouraging endless upgrades but I don't think you can put a value on sheer musical enjoyment. I like the Linn Classik, it makes music and boogies. So on a budget I'd happily live with one.

Above that, well there is very little on the market that makes me want to rush home from work to put some new music on, maybe even a different genre such as bluegrass or baroque. And any upgrade from the Classik would have to do that to justify the increase in cost, whether that be £5 or £5,000.

So what I a getting at is that any upgrade from basic hifi should show an immediate emotional connection that speaks to the heart and forces your wallet to open. Anything else will soon sound the same as your previous kit (once the novelty of the soundstage depth and treble extension has worn off), and you will start looking around for the next upgrade that will ultimately fail to satisfy.

And all because the purchase is made with the head and not the heart.

 

You speaking from experience there by any chance old chap?

Good advice, I'd say. The curse of newness and change for change's sake and all that.

Having said that, I think Michael's £3K could get him something excellent, certainly better than his Arcam, if it wasn't for this AV mullarkey muddying the waters.

-- Ian

 

£3k brings us back to the eVo 2i...

 

Ian, I think we all are if we are honest with ourselves. Let's just say I don't buy many brands of cables these days and have not availed myself of any of Russ' great offers of late.

hey if £3K does the trick then great, even better if £1500 does it. But my point is that it is the "trick" and not the price that is important.

I agree with Michael's view regarding AV processors. Been there, done that. None of them get close to a good two channel preamp for my money. Don't know why but there you go. I too keep them seperate.

 

Ok - I agree with that but I also think you have to set an upper limit your comfortable with and stick to it - the other way is a short cut to madness (and financial ruin).

My point is I'm precisely trying to get out of the upgraditis rut and IMO the only way to do that is to have the components of your system all being at roughly the same level otherwise you'll always have that nagging feeling that one or other bit isn't pulling its weight. If you overreact and buy something that's way better than the rest you've only moved the problem onto the next round of upgrades.

I know that the Dyns and the DAC64 will be with me for a good long time - once I have the right amp I'll be happy as larry and I'll sit back and enjoy the music whilst watching everyone else get into a strop about upgrades

Michael.

 

Famous last words...

 

We'll see Merlin has uttered those words and he's, what, on about his 3rd or 4th upgrade cycle since then

Michael.

 

Actually that is of course a common fallacy, prophagated by WM (amongst others) who himself has to admit to life altering system changes on a daily basis!

I have only changed my system once since I proudly proclaimed "eureka", from the Tact based setup to the Sim one.

That is the most pathetic attempt at a justification for going to the middle ground I have ever heard Michael! As you say, the Dac 64 is "without peers" so you owe it the transport, amplification and speakers to go along side.

 

FWIW at least the Linn Kolektor and Kairn have optional unity gain on an input. And the AV5103 appears to be considered as a viable 2 channel upgrade from the Kairn by many Linnies.

ISTM that 'AV' and 'Hifi' don't mix. You inevitably compromise the hifi for the AV, which is a shame given it's the shallower medium.

Put the TV in the kitchen, watch films in the cinema and get your news from the Internet.

Paul

 

Have to say I agree with Michael[Lab] on this one but the problem is human bloody nature and we just can't help ourselves. Given the nature of the recordings themselves (regardless of format) then acheiving a completely accurate reproduction of what was there when it was recorded is NEVER going to be possible (regardless of how much time/effoft/money/new technology you throw at it).

Sad but true. Just find something you enjoy and live with it :MILD:.

Am I being a little contradictory here ?
Absolutely, because I've just 'upgraded' but I enjoy the upgrading, the journey and the education.
I've learned so much about recording techniques, production methods etc. but most importantly I've discovered SO much more music because of hi-fi and all it trappings.

I've even learned about a few other things just by being on this forum :MILD:.

 

Hi Mike!

I shant reccomend any brands, because I dont know what your system sounds like (or the room its in) so I doubt it would be the most use.

I just wanted to say 2 things though..

1) Im sure that you are right - you can get a fantastic integrated amp or pre/power for £3k. If you cant, keep looking!

2) You said that you were worried about the valve option running out of juice. If you go for 50+ watts and large transformers (or OTL of course) then this shouldnt be a problem.

Good luck wth your auditioning


Chris

 

Thanks Chris Wha'ts OTL??

I don't owe it anything. IMO I already have a transport and speakers worthy of it, it's just the amplification that's maybe a little lacking. Once that's sorted I'll be done. I already enjoy my system as it is a great deal and I'm not going to get a worthwhile increase (for me) by spending thousands more (beyond the amp upgrade).

If you think that means I end up with a mediocre or "middle ground" system then that's up to you but I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.

Michael.

 

Who said anything about mediocre?

All I said was that as you claim that the dac64 is one of the world's finest dacs, then it stands to reason that it deserves to be partnered with some of the world's finest ancillaries.

At least that is what you must be thinking, you know, "just what is it really capable of?". In which case this...............

........is total ZGB