Amplifier musings

That's sort of what I was trying to say.

FWIW I'd take an excellent stereo active system over a similarly priced passive 5.1 job. I think that more than one speaker begins to be a distraction, but I can just tolerate having two... Stereo adds a small amount more information to mono, 5.1 adds an even smaller amount at an even greater incremental cost. It's definitely a sales and marketing oriented invention.

So junior AV if you must have swirly effects in films but it shouldn't severely compromise the hifi, this is michaelab's conundrum. He needs to find a way to choose the best stereo pre-power for his circumstances.

Paul

 

I dont want to make a case over some preferring to hear music in stereo, others in surround, I accept that it is a personal subject, although my experience tells me that it is a matter of habit more than anything else... :MILD:

But you can have AV only stereo too, actually I used to have my HQ VCR connected to my stereo, why shouldn't you enjoy the movies soundtrack as well...

 

Is it just me or have some of you got the wrong perspective on this ?

Michael is looking for a way to integrate his hi-fi and his AV setups without any detrimental affects. As far as I can tell, he's not interested in multi-channel music so why are we discussing that ?

He enjoy's his DVD's and enjoys his music. They don't always fall in to the same bracket . As I suggested before (along with a few others); it's surely a case of a power amp with multiple/switchable inputs.

Michael's Arcam and Marantz both have pre-outs so adding a power amp to the equation isn't really difficult. If he finds that the Arcam (acting as a pre) is insufficient then he can change it for a dedicated pre. The Marantz will have received a performance enhancement with the addition of the power amp so everything is hunky dory until he comes around to possibly changing that as well.

 

voodoo,
there are many ways of implimenting this kind of thing. all that's happening is that people are exploring the possibilities. i would suggest that there are few power amps that have switchable inputs (especially with this as a remote facility as i can see scrabbling around the back of a full hi-fi rack getting old really quickly) but then i'm only familiar with tones b/c for this kind of functionality.
unity gain is certainly the most convenient way to go and once you've lived with it for a while it is a real bugger to loose however if the sonic benefits are great enough you can
cheers


julian

 

Agreed but this thread suddenly started to veer to the 'multi-channel (be it music or movies) is sh*te' argument again when that's not the issue. Michael already has 5 speakers, DVD's and an AV amp.

You're right about the switching possibly becoming a pain sans remote but would it really be THAT bad ?
I mean, you have to get up to load the DVD anyway .
I'm lucky in that I have a remote switching facility on my power amp but guess what...I change it manually because I have to go over to the rack anyway. It's no different from closing the curtains.

If I was to go down the "integrated with unity gain" route, I'd go for one of these :

http://www.marklevinson.com/products/overview.asp?cat=ia&prod=no383&details=yes

Good prices s/h these days.

 

It started by people telling him not to mix stereo with AV, I think it was appropriate to counter that statement... :JPS:

 

Two good speakers are better than five crap ones, the same probably holds true for stereo amps versus 5.1 ones.

So for the same money, stereo gives better sound quality, in general, than does surround sound. Plus it's less 'wanky'.

 

You'll have a 5.1 setup in each room then ?

 

I have to cart the TV downstairs, plus its stand, plonk it in between the speakers and connect a scart lead to the preamp. Keeps me fit - well it might if I could be bothered to do it with any regularity.

Books & music are more fun and less wanky.

 

You can connect your Sky box, video, DVD, whatever to your stereo with no (real*) compromise to the stereo, it's just another input.

The issue for michaelab is that he wants to upgrade his stereo amp and retain integration with the AV system. An amp or preamp with a unity gain input allows this seamlessly. Other switching options exist. The argument is whether he should constrain his choice of stereo components to those that will seamlessly integrate with the existing AV processor.

So is there a suitable pre with unity gain? We know that all current Naim production has this, and that recent models can be modified. The Linn Wakonda and Kairn offer it. Others must know of other models.

FWIW I think a Linn Kolektor/2250 combo would have enough go and come in under the price limit even new... The pre is a bit girly though.

*(some people are a bit obsessive about what is connected to their preamp and will be unplugging everything bar the active component for serious listening. I wouldn't want to assert as fact that they're wrong)

Paul

 

Of course if I built my own 5ch power amp with LC Audio PWM modules I'd make it with switchable inputs. In fact - LC Audio themselves say it's fine to connect up balanced and single ended inputs simultaneously (without a switch) allthough clearly the intention is that only one of them is receiving a signal at any one time - I don't know what would happen if you sent a signal down both at the same time

The consensus seems to be swinging toward the power amp with switchable inputs route - but then the requirement for switchable inputs is rather like the requirement for unity gain in the way it restricts my choice of equipment.

Just out of interest, why is it that the kings of the flat earth (Naim and Linn) all support unity gain when it's only application (that I know of) is AV integration which is decidely not flat earth?

My options seem to have narrowed down to:

• Integrated with unity gain. Realistically only the SimAudio i-5 is a contender. The Belcanto eVo2i and Krell KAV-400xi are really more money than I'd ideally like to spend. The same goes for other offerings from Gryphon (Callisto 2100 - recommended by a friend, anyone know it?), BAT (VK-300x) and ML (no 383).
• pre with unity gain, use Arcam as power for now and then have unrestricted choice of power amps at a later stage.
• power with switchable inputs, use Arcam as pre for now and then have unrestricted choice of preamps at a later stage.

Michael.

 

The Gryphon is top notch mike, Go for the 2200 though seen them £2600 ish, beautiful stuff, sounds good, like a Lavardin sound sound, with more balls. Wm

 

Mike,

I take it you ar going to buy second hand? If this is the case you should be able to pick up any number of potential candidates. keep checking those classifieds!

 

Yes - I'd like to buy s/h. Allthough the trouble with s/h is auditioning. I'm lucky that I had the chance to hear a SimAudio i-5 in my system (my mate had one on home dem and brought it over) but I don't feel good about asking dealers for home dems and then saying "Cheers, now I'll find it for half the price s/h".

The thing I must not do is start following the s/h ads, ebay etc right now because no doubt if I do something extremely tempting will come past and I just won't be able to resist and all notions of a well considered purchase will fly out the window

I guess with s/h you often just have to be lucky and in the worst case you can always sell on for not much loss.

Michael.

 

michael,
the idea behind linn and naim is 'music first' now whether you agree with their idea of music is neither here nor there just that you see that their philosophy is uncompromising when it comes to 'the music'. from this point of view a unity gain makes perfect sense as it allows that new fangled a/v stuff without corrupting the precious 2 channel music.
also linn has embraced serious technological advancement in recent years and naim have redesigned their entire range although without the serious use of smt that linn uses.
cheers


julian

 

The more I read about the Gryphon the more I'm starting to like it...a lot No dealers in Portugal but there are one or two places in Spain that sell them (and there's a second hand Callisto 2100 for about £2275 going at the moment) so I'll have to go along to check it out at some point and take the DAC64 along (the two Gryphon dealers in Spain are both Dynaudio dealers so no need to cart my speakers along aswell).

It seems to be consistenly rated in mags and in forums as one of the the top 2 or 3 integrateds in existence (including the ML no.383 voodoo :MILD: ) and if it comes with WM's seal of approval then I know I'll like the sound , it has balanced inputs, zero negative feedback, AV bypass/unity gain and it looks bloody gorgeous aswell

Michael.

 

I have been to the gryphon website and the 2200 certainly looks interesting.

http://www.gryphon-audio.dk/default.asp

 

The Gryphon electronics may be good for all I know but they still say the same rubbish about spikes acting as mechanical diodes.

 

All Linn preamps since the LK1 in 1985ish have had digitally controlled volume controls, so 'unity gain' is just a question of programming. The Kairn has always had the rather convenient facility to move the volume by an amount as you switch from input to input, but you had to upgrade the software for very early models to get the unity gain option.

Some Naim amps have similar volume control arrangements, the Nait 5 and one of the cheap pres at least, so ug is easy. But with the motorised pot you have to do some more complicated switching to route the input direct to the output rather than via the volume control. I presume the balance is left in circuit?

I presume that if you have two inputs connected to a suitable power amp without a switch it will 'mix' them. This may force you have to have both sources powered to keep things quiet. Experimentation would be advised.

Paul

 

Mike, I though you might like to check this ok, UK based and a fair price asked I feel

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstran&1073681607&2&3&4&


£1980, seems fair to me the right voltage too. Wm