Analog Corner: how big is the tonearm's contribution to a TT's sound?

Hi Lawrie,

You should get better musical performance from the SME IV when you get it on your deck. The Graham arm sounds interesting as are uni-pivots. I tried a Wilson Benesch arm on my Avid Acutus, which produced quality sounds. The strengths were in the mid range but I thought the SME V offered better top to bottom consistancy.

These are reasons why the turntable is more important. Different material will be affected in different ways. Careful design helps to reduce these effects. Even heavy turntables will vibrate.

Cut these vibrations down or redirct them will result in less bad energy being picked up be the stylus. This helps to give the arm stable platform. This in turn gives the cartridge a better chance to do it's job.

Three main areas of turntable design are

the platter/cartridge/arm/subchassis loop. You need to transmit any vibrations from near the stylus away from it.

Main Chassis & suspension which will isolate the turntable from it's suroundings.

The motor system which supplies the power to rotate. This should be free vibration & instability.

The turntable features heavily in all these main areas.

This is where careful design & use of materials comes in. You could go for materials that doesn't vibrate much & or go for designs that sink energy into the sub chassis from the main bearing & away from the stylus for example.

Isolation is very important as this will cut down certain vibrations entering the system.

A good motor/drive system is very important as this can be a big source of bad vibration. Good drive of the platter will give you less noise entering platter/cartridge/arm/subchassis system & greater rotation stability. Pitch, timing, rhythm, stoping & starting of notes, lack of blurring of notes, stability of music etc will all improve.

There are many ways to produce these results, hence the array of turntables over the years but to do it well, it can cost money.

You would hear differences between A £2K cartridge & say a £50 one in a Rega P2. The arm is capable of handling a very good cartridge. You won't get big increases in pitch, timing etc as mentioned above. All you need to do is compare with abetter deck. Try the same cartridge in a P2 then a P9 to give you an idea of what can be achieved when you go to town on a design.

True the sum total is needed to be taken into account but IMO the turntable has a very big effect on things. You must go on quality of the deck, not price. Arms like the Rega RB250 & RB300 have helped bring down the starting price for quality arms. These will improve a lot of decks with lesser arms. Rega in a budget deck may sound good but in a better deck it will sound better.

The source first thing was put forward by amp & speaker manufactuers. I have seen in an old Quad manual a reference to feeding their amps with a good signal source to get the best out of them. Also I understand that Gilbert Biggs of Wharfdale mentioned the importance of a good signal to get the best from loudspeakers. These references date from the 50's.

True, Ivor T of Linn did shout out loud about this but the main change also was when people in hifi mags started to listen to the equipment rather than just measuring it. Also his deck was better than a number at the time due, mainly to the fact, it was better built.

As for proof, all you need is two turntables of different quality with the same arm & cartridge. Try with the Rega P2 & P9. Place in reasonable system & away you go. If you go to town on the measurements, you will find that the P9 will measure (in key areas) better than the P2.

As they say, when the going gets tough, the tough gets going.

As for which deck is the best, this is open to opinion.

SCIDB

 

Yes, adding mass to things doesn't stop them from vibrating.

Unipivot arms have the advantage (over gimballed ones) that the arm doesn't 'fight' the groove if the record is not perfectly flat, and few records, if any, are totally flat across their surface.

 

My dealer always thought the Ittok the best arm for an LP12

 

Well, we all take the occasional wrong piece of advice, eh?

 

It is, aside from the Naim Aro, Syrinx PU3, Mission 774SM, Mission Mechanic, Zeta, Linn Ekos, Kuzma Stogi, Rega RB900 etc…

Tony.

 

Just a little joke with the Devil

 

cartridge? Tonearm? Deck? Which is most important?

If any of the three components is bad then the whole system is bad.

The greatest difference in sound you can hear between different cartridges so I believe my priority would be first cartridge then arm and then deck.

 

i think that a TT setup should be looked at as seperate components, after they can be upgraded individually.
So on that theory (for those of use that cant run out spending loads ) you could by a good TT to start with. As good as you can afford, then upgrade accordingly.
I have done this with my setup over the years, an Audiolab 8000A was my first decent item, then upgraded arount it, and on and on.
So in my mind the TT itself would be the obvious starting point, hopefully with a half decent arm at the time. Then i would consider PSU, arm/cart. I say arm/cart together because i think they can be dependant on each other, obviously the whole setup is dependant on its sum of parts, but ime the arm and cart combination need to be payed particular attention.

 

This thread seems to be turning into 'what would I do different this time round if I could' ?

Well, with the wonderfull world of hindsight I would:

Audition phono stage and cartridge combinations until I found a pair that dovetailed perfectly.

I would do this on a deck that was absolutely superb and totally out of my price range ! - like a platine verdier or a SME 30 or similar..

Then ! - I would try the cart and phono stage on decks/arms that were within my budget until I had the best sound at my price point.



So, I guess my opinion is that the interface of phono stage and cartridge is key - and the arm/deck will either allow the combination to work at its best or it will not.

Chris

 

Yes, YES, YES Chris! You got it!! That's it. Nothing else than the real truth.

 

Seems like an arse-backwards way of going about things to me.

 

These people have never heard how well a £20 MM cart works in a great TT/arm combo. But you can only say it so many times.

Not to mention the economic argument. Good carts have relatively short lifetimes whereas a TT and arm goes on forever.

Paul

 

An AT95E(£25) in a top flight deck/arm will sound better than any cartridge on a lesser deck/arm.

Paul.

 

humm...

Me suspects a thread of ''Naim/Linn Lp12 doctrination'' with quickie/paul/bub !! no offense!

I couldnt disagree more though. A cheap and shitty £20 cartridge is .....cheap and shitty, !! you cant shine shit dear chap.

To further throw cats into pidgeons and get myself maligned on the internet - IMO a £500 nottingham analogue deck is preferable to a fully specced LP12 to these ears...... and unless you've heard what £500-£1000 will get you these days, you'll just endlessly repeat decade old wisdom (? ) about turntables, that simply doesnt apply to 1990s/2000's decks.

The TT first, then arm, then cart arguement might apply to the Lp12 because you've got to spend the earth on its power supply arm and set-up to bring a 1970's design up to date!.. no wonder they thought the cart should come last.

I just dont think it DOES apply to a fully sorted modern deck.

Im now hiding under a rock from the missiles !!

 

o dear

LP12?.........I was thinking along the lines of the PTTOO or Roksan Xerxes both of which I have tried with load's of different arms and cartridges..........I suppose these are not modern enough as well
Anyway,If you prefer the NA to the Linn then fine.......I prefer the two decks I mentioned to it,but it makes not one jot of difference

Paul.

 

Hi bottleneck,

If the turntable platter is shaking around like buggery, no arm or cartridge on earth is going to sound any good at all. This is why I think the support is the most important thing.

And can you please tell me what advances there have been in technology/design in the past twenty years which specifically impact on turntable performance.

 

I suppose you have a £20 MM cart on the best TT/arm combo in the world.
How many persons in this world have also a £20 MM cart on their very good TT/arm combo?
Up to now I know none of them but let's say there are some few. Does that mean that all the other guys (very many) don't care about the economic argument and buy better carts just for fun?

 

Crappy moving magnets.

When I worked in retail,the top turntable we had on dem was a Roksan Xerxes fitted with a Zeta tonearm.
We also had another Xerxes with a moth arm(Rega rb250)
People would look at the Zeta and say £459 for a tonearm,it can't be that much better than the moth(£65)
So I would fit an AT95E to the Zeta and an ATOC9(£400) to the moth taking both arm/cartridge combo's to around the same price.
I can't recall one person prefering the Moth/OC9 combo,even though the Zeta had a (shitty) £20 moving magnet cartridge on it.
I could bore you with other example of different decks/arms/cartridges,but I hope you get my drift

Paul.

 

You can use a cheap and shitty £20 cart, I'll use a basic AT.

I have no way of knowing how well a £500 Nottingham Analogue turntable works.

Paul

 

I have used a £20 MM on the best TT/arm combo in the known world.

I think you'd be surprised.

The crux of the argument is that there is no point in progressing beyond the 'good cheap' cartridge until you have an impeccable TT and arm. It's good economic sense, and it's good for your sound.

If your dealer won't do the type of demo that 'quickie' mentions, question their motives. Hooking you onto expensive MC carts is good for business....

Paul