Another pointless Mana debate

analoguekid said:
first you agree with M then you contradict him. You quoted him and his answer to monitors being better but leaner higher up as if you agreed then contradicted him by saying that your sound is fuller and that moving them had nothing to do with it the mana did it all, what gives?
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I don't understand what you mean, go back & re-read what I wrote?
 
It would be interesting to me (probably not you) Bub , if , when you get the chance, you pulled out the old tape measure and measured from the centre of your bass cone to a) the floor and b) the ceiling , just to see which one it,s closer to .
 
Ok I'll give you that one but somehow Merlins post seems to be beleivable, I can understand how moving them away from the floor can make them sound leaner, but you say the opposite, you must be correct again James, you being the expert on all things realistic and beleivable:)
 
The bass drivers are about four feet from the floor; nine feet from the ceiling.

Paul, even you will be able to hear the difference between phase 7 & phase 11.
 
The bass drivers are about four feet from the floor; nine feet from the ceiling.
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That doesn,t sound like a very high stack . Forgive me , Bub , with all this talk of Mana towers, I had visions of 6ft high stacks and large speakers perched precariously on top.
 
The Devil said:
Paul, even you will be able to hear the difference between phase 7 & phase 11.
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I doubt it em er thingy I mean James my memory aint that good. I was so underwhelmed the last time that it didn't stick in my mind, only joking, too much "beer" the last time to remember what it sounded like.
 
Kermit his CDP and TT are nigh on six feet from floor check out the pics on my mana forum link for what we mean by towers.

And you have to put this into perspective Bubs speakers are large approx four feet high, most of us have tweeters at around four feet, this is his bass he's talking about the tweeter is another 3 feet or so higher.
 
The Devil said:
The bass drivers are about four feet from the floor; nine feet from the ceiling.
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Give me exact measurements Bub before and after phase 11 and I will try to explain to you the different interactions.
 
Thanks AK , I realise that his tweets are higher .
The only other thing that I can think of is that the height of the bass cone is coming closer(or matching) to the distance from the side walls .
other than that it,s either Bub is right about the mana working or something thoroughly technical that Chris (alright Mike - smile) will no doubt post once/if Bub gives him the exact measurements.
 
OK

The centres of the woofers are 3' 11" from the floor, and hence about 9' from the ceiling.

The left speaker is 5' from the side wall, the right is about 15' from the other side wall. The speakers are 5' 6" apart.

The listening position is 13' from the front baffles. The back wall is about another 3' behind that.

Hope this helps to disprove what I have said about Mana stands.
 
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The Devil said:
OK

The centres of the woofers are 3' 11" from the floor, and hence about 9' from the ceiling.
Hope this helps to disprove what I have said about Mana stands.
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No James it does not disprove anything- I know what it's like trying to get people who have never heard something beleive me!

But, given a 13ft ceiling, you will expereince bass cancellations at 6ft 6in, and again at 3ft 3in and at 1ft 7.5 in. Reinforcement will occur mid way between these points, so at 4ft 10.5in and at 2ft 6in etc.

So before adding the extra phases, your ATC's would have been very close to a cancellation at both 43hz and 86hz. The new positioning will naturally increase bass response, and indeed make it more even, giving greater clarity to the midrange.

So I suggest there is a perfectly provable reason for the gains you have experienced beyond the number of phases you are employing.
 
wadia-miester said:
If for example Nora Jones is singing, it should be a female vocalist that covers maybe 3/4 octaves
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Whooo, steady on there!

The likes of Cecilia Bartoli and others who specialise in coloratura opera roles might just about have a usable pitch range of three octaves, but it's pushing it a bit. Norah, to go on the evidence of the albums, has - in common with the vast majority of pop singers - a range of less than one. :D
 
Hey lads - I'm going to fit right in here, nothing like a little bickering to make an interesting read.

Thanks to those of you who took the time to reply, some thoughts that come out of this:

The Quad 99 CDP is worth a look, I'll certainly do so.

No thoughts on the Resolution Audio or any other older stuff... there must be some out there.

Analoguekid - I will have a look at the Shanling - personally it's not to my taste.. looks like a disco to me.. but as has been said, it's function over form for me.. and I don't believe in psycho-acoustics.... having said that the feel of the unit is extremely important, no point in having a piece of kit if you every time you touch it feels like it's going to fall to pieces - the shanling certainly does.

W_M - LOL at the W7 - there are better units out there you know... plus they are about as arch competiton to us as you can get.. But yes, I will go for an active sub, I'll do some x-over work and see what looks good.

The Devil - I know the ATCs quite well. They are not the sort of sound that I usually go for, but the sheer un-colouredness of them makes them an invaluable tool.

Some very interesting thoughts on the whole mana (I presume stands) thing here.. Have you lads ever looked into waterfall units on different stands? It would be interesting to do so. Decay, which I presume manifests itself ina similar way to 'bleeding' would show up obviously.

You would then need to look into reasons why of course, I can understand your thoughts on floor / ceiling loading effects, but could doppler come into it?

It's also intersting to read thoughts on the acoustic centre's of different driver arrays..
 
Matt I have no views either way on the Shanling, it's just that my local dealer sells them and I've heard them a few times, pretty well built personally I don't really like the look of them a bit fussy for my tastes but thought I would reccomend anyway as they had built in pre of sorts, still agree with WM though this would be a stopgap untill you could afford a pre, running a bare source without pre only works if done properly, the pre in the Wadias for example prolly cost more to make than the shanling cdplayers do, but the shanling stuff is good value all the same, they even have some monoblocks that have built in vol with remote, almost mono integrateds. Personally I would go s/h exdem, but made no reccomendations as I can't remember what has built in pre and what prices they go for S/H, obvious answer is some Wadias, but the good ones are a bit above your stated budget, others will be along to help, but I'd start a new thread if I were you.
 

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