Another pointless Mana debate

[lordsummit]

Nora Jones two octaves max, from G below middle C to the G two octaves above it.
Merlin is right about the waves, the wave shortens by a half every time the octave goes up if I remember right. Mind you it's a long time since I've had to think about it

 

[analoguekid]

Maybe James will come out from his hobbit hole one day and realise what the rest of the world is enjoying

Should we call him the "Bubbitt"

 

[penance]

Oh eck
He knows his stuff
we are doomed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome aboard matey

 

[Matt@Nearfield]

Nora Jones two octaves max, from G below middle C to the G two octaves above it.
Merlin is right about the waves, the wave shortens by a half every time the octave goes up if I remember right. Mind you it's a long time since I've had to think about it

Certainly does, the range of human hearing (average, not talking about these young 18yrs who can hear silly ranges) is 10 octaves - 20hz to 20khz. the halving or doubling of time (or freq) is an octave.

Analogue - sorry if I sounded in anyway ungrateful for the recommendation, I will certainlyhave a look / listen. I understand what you mean about old gear, whilst I beieve 2nd hand is the way to go (someone else can pay the VAT), researching what's suitable or not isn't easy .. would like a wadia, but understand the older units use a phillips transport that is no longer replaceable and these are just starting to reach the age where they break down.. perhaps someone can confirm.

thanks everyone for the welcome

 

[analoguekid]

No offence taken Matt just wanted to make my position clear in case Julian branded me a zealot (we have enough of these already)

 

[wadia-miester]

Paul,
Bubbit that might just catch on.
Nora Jones and octaves, 2 or 4 either way it wouldn't see the light of day in my system except on a demo, its arualy mental torture.
W7's yes getting on a bit know, though still pretty good, I installed 8, 13.5's into a av system last year each with a 1kw of class 't' on them, now that does make for an interesting U571 scene!!!!(even if the film is shite)
Curious to why you want monitors if your had CLD in the car, the monitors can't compete with the dynamics (though Bubbit will insist they do) or the total scale.
Though the Atc do respond well to x/over changes, had particularly good results with the 'M' caps (rather large though), help loose some of the Atc'ness about them
The quad cd is a good start point & does respond well to some internal restructuring and ancilliaries.

 

[The Devil]

But, given a 13ft ceiling, you will expereince bass cancellations at 6ft 6in, and again at 3ft 3in and at 1ft 7.5 in. Reinforcement will occur mid way between these points, so at 4ft 10.5in and at 2ft 6in etc.

So before adding the extra phases, your ATC's would have been very close to a cancellation at both 43hz and 86hz. The new positioning will naturally increase bass response, and indeed make it more even, giving greater clarity to the midrange.

So I suggest there is a perfectly provable reason for the gains you have experienced beyond the number of phases you are employing.

I think that this proves that you think that I'm some sort of idiotic yokel who has no idea about what a room resonance sounds like, and what deep controlled bass sounds like.

There isn't "more bass" there is "more controlled and deeper bass".

 

[Robbo]

I think that this proves that you think that I'm some sort of idiotic yokel

But you are, aren't you?

 

[merlin]

I think that this proves that you think that I'm some sort of idiotic yokel who has no idea about what a room resonance sounds like, and what deep controlled bass sounds like.

From that response James, one would assume such beliefs were correct sadly

Looking at it through the round window today, removing a cancellation at the F3 point of your ATC's would seemingly extend the bass. Smoothing peaks and troughs in the bottom two octaves would apparently improve control at the same time - highly desireable IMO.

 

[The Devil]

You are very good at assuming and suspecting things Merlin.

 

[merlin]

No James,

just pointing out a FACT that could well explain the gains you attribute to the less scientifically provable impact of additional iron & spikes. Now let's ask the forum which is actually more likely to provide the gains - proper positioning or an extra 30% of scaffold?

 

[analoguekid]

I know where my money lies (in the absence of proven facts) and I know which is more aesthetically harmonious in a domestic setting.

I intend to have seperate room in the next house (not for a year or to unfortunately) and proper positioning and room treatments is what I'll be doing, in the meantime I'll keep my compromised unaccurate poor sounding Hifi Jewellrey.

 

[The Devil]

First this:

Raising them further will reduce floor interaction even further usually making them leaner than intended. It isn't rocket science.

Then this:

The new positioning will naturally increase bass response, and indeed make it more even, giving greater clarity to the midrange.

I'm kicking myself now that I didn't consult an expert like you before getting the extra Mana in. Next time, eh?

 

[wadia-miester]

You could do it on the cheap, buy some 8 foot scofflding tubes, cut and weld to suit, fit obligatory spikes, paint matt black, scan some **** labels, hey presto instant raised driver axis, that 'Inviable bass in the centre again' and you saved about £7k sounds a great solution

 

[analoguekid]

Well James Merlin has given some scientific/mathematical reason for the differences you are hearing, what proof (other than endorsements) is there for Mana working as you seem to think it does.

 

[merlin]

James, no need to kick yourself, just do a bit of reading and you will understand the concept.

This may prove to be highly beneficial allowing you to concentrate your funds on other areas of the system rather than investing in further platforms.

FWIW, both of those statements are factually correct, but you do need an understanding of the subject to apreciate it. Have you grasped the relevence of the positioning on the vertical axis with regards to bass reproduction ?

The laws of physics suggest that your move upwards will result (given your measurements) in improved bass and greater clarity. This is provable. What is not unfortunately, is that four expensive bits of angle iron & mdf hooked up with spikes somehow posess magical and revelatory properties. Can you help out there James

 

[The Devil]

So, Mr Merlin, the speakers have become "leaner" - implying less bass, is this correct? But at the same time the bass response has increased!

I cannot answer these overwhelming scientific arguments, Mr Merlin, particularly enjoying your invocation of "the laws of physics" by the way. Is this all of "the laws of physics", or just certain selected highlights? Please clarify which laws you mean.

You suggested that I should "just do a bit of reading". I enjoy reading very much. What would you suggest I should read to explain this mysterious & simultaneous increase & decrease in bass of yours?

It's all very interesting!

 

[The Devil]

Well James Merlin has given some scientific/mathematical reason for the differences you are hearing, what proof (other than endorsements) is there for Mana working as you seem to think it does.

Paul, Mr Merlin has posted what is commonly known as "a load of old baloney".

There is no proof that Mana works, but I would have thought that you knew that.

 

[wadia-miester]

Well possiby James I suggest you supply some 'Proof', send it to Brunnel University of Engineering, let them 'test' the theories. Would that be independent for you enough?

 

[analoguekid]

Paul, Mr Merlin has posted what is commonly known as "a load of old baloney".

There is no proof that Mana works, but I would have thought that you knew that.

A lot of old baloney, well you buy into that so you should know what it is when you see it.

I think Mikes first post was a generalisation that moving speakers away from floor reinforcement should meake bass leaner, however when using measurements to answer your question as to why your new tweak added bass, then for me (and a lot of others i presume) this seems to have merit, based on my limited knowledge of the "laws of Physics"

So far Mike has given well thought out reasons as to why the changes you are hearing are happening, you however keep saying mana works I am right and know what is accurate, if your sysytem was so accurate at phase 7 are you now saying that at phase 11 it is more than accurate.

Of course not you are finding out that your frame of reference has changed now that your system is closer to accurate than what it was, this conclusion should lead you to the assumption that you are only as correct as your reference point, maybe just maybe James there is no "correct" sound and we in fact all have a different and valid interpretation of what is right, hey we're all different and no one of us has all the answers, lets just say that all your previous posts on the subject of your beleifs are in fact that, just beliefs, now if you apply this theory to your posts in the future and added in block capitals "IMHO" then people would not get so pissed off with your unwavering condascending, self oppinionated righteousness.