Another pointless Mana debate

paul / bub,
it is perhaps obvious if you are intimately familiar with that voice or instrument however from bub's statement i get the feeling that he's of the opinion that a violin is a violin is a violin and therefore he is able to determine absolutely that his system can produce 'a violin' with absolute accuracy. i'm dubious of this fact.
small speakers / wobbly bass maybe but then i'm not claiming stunning levels of accuracy from my gear just that i like the way it sounds.
cheers


julian
 
We all know how acoustic instruments should sound. If they sound different through your system, then it's the recording or the system at fault
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So there should be no difference between Jascha Heifitz and Nigel Kennedy playing the violin then. The ideal hi-fi would make them both sound the same. It's all becoming clear now ;)
 
julian2002 said:
paul / bub,
it is perhaps obvious if you are intimately familiar with that voice or instrument however from bub's statement i get the feeling that he's of the opinion that a violin is a violin is a violin and therefore he is able to determine absolutely that his system can produce 'a violin' with absolute accuracy. i'm dubious of this fact.
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Not in the least. Different violins sound different, but they should be readily identifyable as "a violin" rather than "a distorted violin" or some other instrument.

If you are dubious, I don't think that you can have any idea what is really possible with hi-fi Julian. You would be reasonably welcome to come and hear what is possible, but it's a long way from southern England (for which I often count my blessings).
 
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No, you were told that as the system improves, the number of "bad recordings" tends toward zero.

Pay attention, and don't misquote me again.
 
The Devil said:
No, you were told that as the system improves, the number of "bad recordings" tends toward zero.

Pay attention, and don't misquote me again.
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I can't see how, Isn't a bad recording still a bad recording regardless of what it's being played on, If anything shouldn't the number so bad recordings increase as the better system shows up the issues with the recording better ?
 
No, because some recordings are far too complex for basic hi-fi systems to resolve all of the details which are present, so it comes across as an awful din/mush, and you assume that there's something wrong with it. As you improve the system, the details become clearer and better-separated from each other, and a "bad recording" becomes a "good" one.

QED.
 
Paul Ranson said:
I find that the bass is rarely mixed centre. Odd that.

Paul
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I find it most odd that you say this Paul as most of the engineers are two blinkered to mix it in stereo and pan left or right (this from and engineer friend) who incidentally works with Derek forbes and has been involved with Simple Minds engineering, I know Bub prolly asked you for support here but I find it strange you directing these posts just at me, I have heard bubs system and these were my thoughts, It is subjective no matter what you claim, If it sounds right to me then from my point of view I am correct, you have absolutely no idea how my senses have interpreted things therefore you can't tell me i'm wrong, and incidentaly don't take James' word on how my system sounds wait till youi hear it for yourself, you may be correct regarding his systems handling of dynamics etc, but have you considered that my system may be better at these things than his, you seriously can't comment on that one as agian you haven't heard it, I would never say your vsystem was lacking unless I heard it.

FWIW

I was very polite about James' system upon hearing it, after all the build up and hype, weel, lets just say I was underwhelmed, then Jame's pays me a visit to listen to some music and proceeds to get his most challenging discs out and trys to tear my system apart, he was then describing all the inadequacies that he could hear (if i'm honest I don't think I asked for him to do this, I thought we were here to listen to some music) and IIRC I certainly couldn't hear what he was whittering about and neither could Dunkyboy (IIRC) We disconnected the bass units and Jaames went on to say how much better the sound was than without, strange but he again was the only one to ntice this, I went round to James' place again and proceeded to give him a taste of his own medicine buy disecting what I could and couldn't hear, he certainly didn't like it when the boot was on the other foot, so maybe now you can see why I've been giving him such a hard time, if you look at my other posts you will see that I am fair and well balanced, but I treat others as they treat me, so far the only time you have answered my posts is when I have been arguing with James, your loyalty is touching Paul, but please remeber to get the facts correct before going on the rampage.
 
Getting back to the original subject (;)) I demmed a Shanling against an Advantage S1...
Didn't like the Shanling at all - it looked pretty ifyou like bling, but was surprisingly spitty and harsh. Set my teeth on edge, in a chewing aluminium sort of way..
The Advantage (cheaper than the Shanling, but only 2nd hand!) blew it into the weeds - music as opposed to hifi..
 
The Devil said:
No, because some recordings are far too complex for basic hi-fi systems to resolve all of the details which are present, so it comes across as an awful din/mush, and you assume that there's something wrong with it. As you improve the system, the details become clearer and better-separated from each other, and a "bad recording" becomes a "good" one.

QED.
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And guess which camp yours falls into James :SLEEP:
 
Christ some of us have to work on Fridays!

Bub still hasn't come up with anything more original than the normal dissing of fact in favour of hocus pokus though, shame James! Come on give us the full room dimensions and just see what crap I can come up with!

Try harder will you, after all there must be an irrational explanation out there somewhere - this is hifi for heaven's sake!
 
julian2002 said:
paul / bub,
it is perhaps obvious if you are intimately familiar with that voice or instrument however from bub's statement i get the feeling that he's of the opinion that a violin is a violin is a violin and therefore he is able to determine absolutely that his system can produce 'a violin' with absolute accuracy. i'm dubious of this fact.
small speakers / wobbly bass maybe but then i'm not claiming stunning levels of accuracy from my gear just that i like the way it sounds.
cheers


julian
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Julian My point exactly I'm trying to find the root of all this hifi expertise, and assuredness that he has an accurate sounding system, I have said in the past that I like the sound it makes if that is innacurate then I guess I just don't like accurayte systems, if that makes me wrong in James' and Paul's eyes then why should I care, but what I'd like to know is who appointed them as the oracle in all things right and wrong with how something sounds especially when they have never heard it, James sates that he has been into hifi for 20 years, well thats a little less than me so does that make me more experienced, of course not, but I don't profess to have all the answers, nor do I ram my opinions down other peoples throat.

Andy were is that ignore button again?
 
It does work Andy I have him who shall not be named and his sidekick both so now were were we, ah yes shanling, pile of shite wouldn't touch them with a bargepole what you need is Bow Technologies, lots of stuff endorsing them (although I'm not a middle man so I won't bother to quote any) I'm right yer all deaf, in fact my stuff sounds shite but it's bling factor is in orbit. :D
 
I can't help feeling that you are over-reacting somewhat, Paul. You are happy with it, so where's the beef? I haven't asked anyone for 'help' in this thread, why should I?

Merlin, so far you've posted two different theoretical models in this thread. The first stated that bass gets less as you raise a speaker, the second contradicts this. Can we have a final position from you, just so we know?

The room measures about 27 feet by about 18 feet (20 or so into bay window behind speakers) by 13 feet. Does this help at all?
 
paul,
the thing that really gets my goat is the absolutist hyperbole and the use of the words realistic, distortion, etc. as new age replacements for things like musicality, pr&t and groove.
i like to think that i've heard some pretty stunning systems in my time, both from the pov of price as well as percieved quality (as apart from price). only one has made me re-evaluate my system at home and then only in one area (and a very impractical area too given that i live in a semi).
to me this really only proves one thing - we've all either chosen a sound we are most comfortable with or we've gotten used to what we have at home and we therefore use this as our 'reference'. anything that doesn't approach or mimic this 'reference' is percieved as 'distorted', 'flat', 'hi-fi', 'plinque' or any of the other 2000 derogitory terms that have been coined to say that really it's just different to what we are used to. sadly this is a fact of human nature.
bub, if i'm ever up in glasgow i'd love to have a listen to your brand of perfection and the reciprocal offer is made if you're ever this far south of the border.
cheers


julian
 

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