ATC SM75-150S Dome Mid Measurement Data

[RobHolt]

I still can't quite convince myself to put a digital amp with all its signal chain complexity in my system at the analogue stage, but I'll probably get over it with time. The future is bright

Don't worry about 'complexity' - most of what you listen to on CD has passed through 100 OP amps (on average) before you even get to play with it.

That puts some of the more outlandish and tweaky shit we see on hi-fi fora firmly into perspective IMO.

Those KSC modules look very interesting. What sort of prices are we talking?

 

[Tenson]

Don't worry about 'complexity' - most of what you listen to on CD has passed through 100 OP amps (on average) before you even get to play with it.

That may have been the case 10 years ago but more and more studios are becoming more and more digital. Analogue external equipment is still used of course but when a big desk from someone like Neve or SSL has all the compressors, EQ, gates, reverbs, and so on that you need in 80% of situations then only a few bits of external kit are used for special effects and even then they may also be digital.

See much external? Genelec speakers by the way, NOT ATC or PMC lol!

Even here there is not really very much.

I can see a few bits of analogue EQ, valve compressors and so on but not the sort of thing that gets used all over the recordings.



The other thing is that going through some opamps is a bit different from being pulse width modulated, sent through a huge inductor, filtered and everything else.

Most of all though, I just don't want to do it! Why have such complexity when you don't need to? In the end I plan to have digital amps on the bass drivers since I like the efficiency of them and then a lower powered standard SS amp for the mid and tweeters.

Those KSC modules look very interesting. What sort of prices are we talking?

Not sure! They are not going to be cheap though. Someone on DIYAudio had a pair for sale but didn't list the price.

 

[Stereo Mic]

Those aren't proper studios though Simon - there's not an ATC in sight.

 

[RobHolt]

Most of all though, I just don't want to do it! Why have such complexity when you don't need to?

Oh I agree entirely - if a simple set up does the trick then great.
My point has more to do with a view that the replay chain in the home needs to be as simple and short as possible, something held as a matter of principle in many cases. The console in your pic may not have much in the way of external boxes or analogue OP amps but some heavy and complex processing will be going on inside, possibly on large DSP units executed in software.

Then again, I suspect most of the music in our homes was recorded more than 10 years ago.

 

[andyoz]

Simon, which studio is shown in your last photo?

 

[Tenson]

I only have a few albums from Pussycat Dolls and Girls Aloud for this very reason!

 

[Tenson]

Its Aris, a Californian studio. Found the pic on the SSL site.

 

[RobHolt]

I only have a few albums from Pussycat Dolls and Girls Aloud for this very reason!

Yes, but your a whipper-snapper Simon, not like the rest of us old farts

Then again you do have a nice collection of 78s and recording doesn't get much simper than that

 

[ShinOBIWAN]

For me the problem with PC bassed Xover is I don't want to have my computer running all the time while I listen, and more to the point I don't want to use it as a music server... I like picking my CDs and putting them in the player! Just like others like putting vinyl on a TT. Also if the computer breaks down (as it invariably does) I would have no music, which is just when I need it!

If someone produced a DEQx that was just as capable as Acourate then I might be tempted some time down the line. Speaking of which, have yo seem these? http://www.kscind.com/digmoda/

IIRC they can do FIR filters as well as IIR, and also have driver correction so it could be quite capable. A much neater solution thats for sure! If I didn't already have a digital crossover / DAC / Preamp then I might well have gone for those. So yeah, the problem with a PC setup for me is the spreading out and separation of the hi-fi across so many different systems. I want something more integrated, and dedicated.

Things are heading in the right direction but nothing compares on a like for like basis with a PC setup.

I'm working extremely hard on trying to juggle up a dedicated and standalone machine - no monitor, just a small shuttle sized PC case. The plan is to turn it on wait a couple of minutes for it to boot into Linux and thats it. Being Linux its bomb proof so no stability issues, infact its a bare bones linux install with only the sound interface layer and the operating Kernel itself running.

I plan to run it on a core 2 duo mobile CPU so the entire thing can be passively cooled - completely silent.

It'll allow for 3 analogue stereo sources(or a single 5.1 audio), many channels of digital in's and upto 16 channels of processed output for complete multichannel correction and filtering over 5 multiway speakers plus stereo subs if need be.

All processing will be done at double precision floating point (64bit) and the machine will filter at 96Khz as standard with 192Khz an option but will result in the loss of a few outputs. Samplerate conversion will take place for anything that isn't at the same rate as the filtering but its possible to generate 'native' filters for each sampling rate ie. 44, 48, 88, 96 etc. and have the PC detect and switch between each.

I've also been pestering Uli who wrote Acourate and we have some minimum phase filtering with time alignment, full driver AND room correction working with down to 1.5ms filter latency. This is perfect for realtime applications such as gaming, movie & TV playback etc.

When quality is paramount then linear phase can be deployed but latency rises to around 1 second. This isn't an issue for music and will provide the very best sound possible.

There's even an IR receiver on the PC so its entirely possible to have EQ presets and switch between them as you'd do with any consumer box.

The implementation of the hardware is a piece of piss but customising the software is taking some time.

 

[Tenson]

Hmm.. you could also use one of those solid state hard disks to reduce noise further and boot time will only be a few seconds. Add a fanless PSU and it sounds pretty sweet (or doesn't sound at all!).

 

[titian]

Very good speaker with some reservations.

I'm don't know. From what I heard the system was not great for people who hear classical music and who go to such concerts.

 

[Stereo Mic]

Using a Naim CD player at the moment, I can well understand that comment Titian - I feel as if a layer of the acoustic has been stripped from the music at times.

I think the ATC's are an elegant solution for someone looking to simplify things and get a decent enough setup for a reasonable cost. I would consider them myself if I ever decided to go down that route -either the SCM50 or the B&O Beolab 5 would seem to fit the bill.

 

[titian]

Using a Naim CD player at the moment, I can well understand that comment Titian - I feel as if a layer of the acoustic has been stripped from the music at times.

Unfortunately there wasn't a difference when using the SME turntable. I'll anyway hope i will be able to hear the SCM 100ASL and 150ASL with both Naim and Gryphon Mikado CD player. Maybe they should use another preamp.

 

[DSJR]

either the SCM50 or the B&O Beolab 5 would seem to fit the bill.

The tragedy is that apart from one or two glowing reviews, the Beolab 5 will just be regarded as an oddity in "our" circle, when in fact it's one of the very few genuinely innovative speakers to be introduced to the mass market in years IMO.

The other thing is the musically ignorant Beopeople who will buy them for background listening and showing off only - (well, it is B&O's top speaker after all and I've got to show how successful I am) -.

Sorry for the above. When I worked for a West End dealer we had some seriously wealthy clients, who never deliberately let on or paraded their wealth. Moving to the suburbs to a B&O salon with separates too (a dead breed these days), showed a completely different mentality by the small business owners who wanted to show how successful they were and how arrogant they could be...

 

[andyoz]

Sorry for the above. When I worked for a West End dealer we had some seriously wealthy clients, who never deliberately let on or paraded their wealth. Moving to the suburbs to a B&O salon with separates too (a dead breed these days), showed a completely different mentality by the small business owners who wanted to show how successful they were and how arrogant they could be...

I have a BMW dealer neighbour that says exactly the same thing.

He had a scruffy fella in a few months back that was mumbling about trading his "old car" in for a BMW but never said what it was. He turned up the next week to get his trade in valued and it was a >£80k turbo Porsche 911.

 

[The Devil]

Trust your judgement fox. This thread is 99% trollery, and 1% audiophoolery.

Anyway, I'm off, as Stereo Mic is no doubt on his way back....

 

[bottleneck]

Fox, what Micromega DAC are you using?

I ask because I used to have the T-DAC (and T-Drive) about 4-5 years ago.

 

[titian]

I'd love to know how good or bad the SCA2 really is compared to what's out there. I have had an old one (serial is in the 'x00s) for about a year now. After upgrading from the CA2 (too noisy over 30' ICs) the answer was go balanced so I plumped for an SCA2 -- a lazy choice I know but I figure i'd listen to my ATC 100s in that way ATC envisage them being heard. I'd planned on shifting it after a few months.

12 months later Its still here. Sum it up in one word? Its unassuming. I have grown to respect it. It doesn't leap out at you.

That's great, I wish I could say the same. I'm also not interested in special effects. I just want to sit down and listen to music and have a feeling after ten seconds that's every thing is absolutely (damn) normal, like I would be in the concert hall (best seats). No super huge soundstage, no ah-ha effects and so on. Just boaring normal. But it wasn't like that the other day, I don't know where the problem was. I was always caught by things in the sound that for me weren't completely normal and that made me aware of having a system in front of me.

 

[Tenson]

titian, do you think it could be as much to do with being used to your own system? Everyone gets used to their system and can tune out any slight artifacts in the sound without thinking about it after a time.

If you listen to an unfamiliar system I think it would be very hard to hear it and not hear something 'different'.

 

[The Devil]

That's great, I wish I could say the same. I'm also not interested in special effects. I just want to sit down and listen to music and have a feeling after ten seconds that's every thing is absolutely (damn) normal, like I would be in the concert hall (best seats). No super huge soundstage, no ah-ha effects and so on. Just boaring normal. But it wasn't like that the other day, I don't know where the problem was. I was always caught by things in the sound that for me weren't completely normal and that made me aware of having a system in front of me.

Do you think it's possible to listen to one system in one room - your own for instance - and another somewhere else, and then draw meaningful comparisons between the two?

I am sure that one of the reasons why I like my system is that I like my room.

And fox has pointed out the real purpose of a hi-fi system, which is to reproduce what's on the recording.