ATC studio monitors

you cannot make a performance

better by improved mastering it's as simple as that.
most of you have used your hi fi to tell you wether something is good or not.
dsotm is a dire piece at best, mj's "thriller" sold more quickly and sounds better in terms of a studio creation. dsotm is a boring piece of upper class drivel.
bub you said the early cd issue sounds dire but that is the one that virtually every radio station in the world plays. i would say that this proves 99% of people don't know what instruments and vocals sound like for real.
3-d you have alienated a semi flat earther by bringing the system into being more important than the performance that was recorded by the artists and producer/engineer.
if we all don't wake up soon we all will have to buy 128 kps mp3's with no sleeve art , lyrics sheets and photos of the band. the whole art of making records or being an artist in the music INDUSTRY will die.
bub you should be more open minded.
3-d you should be encouraging not disparate.
you all should celebrate your love of music not HI FI.
regards.
darryl.
the big difference is the DIFFERENCE between live and recorded performances use your bloody ears and your f%*kin' brains..... :mad:
 
3DSonics said:
Moreover, I repeat, the argument was not one if you (or anyone else) should like the sound ATC's speakers make or not, but the contention especially from you that "ATC hand builds the most accurate professional reference loudspeakers in the world.".

A professional monitor is a tool, it is a sonic straightedge (or at least it should be) and on that account I find ATC (and most other professional monitors) wanting on that account.

A domestoc speaker should allow me to enjoy my music and for me personally give me the emotional connection to the music (eg. I want to hear WHY the musicians play the music, not how they do it) and I find ATC (and practically all commercially available generic technology speakers VERY WANTING on these accounts.

And the above is also the reason why I feel that for me personally at least Pro-Monitors are not ideal in domestic settings, as the job at hand is a different one. Considering my background I will likely listen a lot more analytical than most music lovers, so I suspect my own system will still be too intellectual and clinical for most.
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Some how I am not buying this. If a pair of loudspeakers that built to measured well and therefore has the best ability to accurately play back all sorts of recorded sound but yet it don't actually make a sounds that is nice to listen for long period of time at domestic rooms.

It is like suggesting that we have technology to reproduce moving pictures very accurately. In studios engineers use accurate monitors house in room with carefully controlled lighting to see what is recorded is done accurately. However, these are not nice to watch long term or for enjoyment if you use these same accurate monitors. Therefore, when at home you should buy a TV monitor that makes a picture that has less then perfect focus and colour reproduction to enjoy them. Huh? :rds2:

Some years back I bought some AVI Pronines after reading that a SOS magazine reviewer says these make a nice and accurate sound suitable for monitoring in studios. Got them back and they sounds nice to my ears even after a few hours and yet look acceptable enough to house in among the other furnitures in the living room. They seems to make CDs sound closer to those I heard in concert halls. Did I got this wrong again as one is not supposed to get accurate speakers for home use?
 
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wolfgang said:
Some how I am not buying this. If a pair of loudspeakers that built to measured well and therefore has the best ability to accurately play back all sorts of recorded sound but yet it don't actually make a sounds that is nice to listen for long period of time at domestic rooms.
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I believe Thorsten is suggesting that the ATC's do not measure well if you choose the right measurements (ie. impulse response and off axis frequency plot)
 
Hi darrylfunk,

Whether you like DSOTM or not is beside the point.

They can get away with playing the CD version over the radio because most people don't have particularly good hi-fis.
 
Hi,

darrylfunk said:
3-d you have alienated a semi flat earther by bringing the system into being more important than the performance that was recorded by the artists and producer/engineer.
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You completely mistake me, actually. I am quite opposed to modern music production techniqies and methodes as I feel they (de)generate potentially good music into amorphous mush. But if the Engineers do not have the tools to actually hear what they record and if Lo-Fi gear is the targeted replay platform you invaribaly end up with what get now.

This whole discussion arose because I took exceptions to claims that ATC Monitors would make inherently better Speakers as the old Hartley Concert Master and to ATC's being "the most accurate Monitor".

darrylfunk said:
if we all don't wake up soon we all will have to buy 128 kps mp3's with no sleeve art , lyrics sheets and photos of the band. the whole art of making records or being an artist in the music INDUSTRY will die.
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Actually, that has already happened. Much of the money spinner music for the large music conglomerates is compressed, nay smashed down into an 8 Bit dynamic range anyway so that 128K MP3 is just fine.

High quality music in terms of both musical and so ic quality is quickly becomming a niche product, but i predict that when the current Music Inductry majors have finally choked to death on the cr*p they turn out there will be a revival of both REAL music and high quality recordings. By then realtime downloads in 24/192KHz will be reality and the neccesary gear to make good basic recordings using simple microphone techniques and no compressions will be readily and cheaply available.

And recording quality will have finally returned to the great heydays of the 1950's & 1960's, except without tape noise and less distortion. I'm looking forward to it.

Ciao T
 
Hi,

wolfgang said:
Some how I am not buying this. If a pair of loudspeakers that built to measured well and therefore has the best ability to accurately play back all sorts of recorded sound but yet it don't actually make a sounds that is nice to listen for long period of time at domestic rooms.
Click to expand...

Where your problem starts is that you assume that somehow the measurements performed on "High Fidelity" equipment provide data that correlates with "accuracy". That is not the case.

Typhical Speakers are charaterised almost entierly by their frequency response. Outside the sound reinforcement and High End Pro-Monitor market you will almost never find distortion figures or figures for compression. When Studio Sound run a comparison between affordable HiFi Speakers and affordable Studio "nearfield" Monitoirs (which nevertheless cost several times as much).

They found that at nominal rated power levels any of the speakers exceeded 3db thermal compression and had distortion levels in the two-figures. Non of the speakers or monitors preserved an Impulse intact (remember, music is not sinewaves but largely transient phenomenae) either. All speakers had widely varying directivity with frequency and very uneven off axis frequency response. All speakers tested (8 overall) had however a quite evenly balanced frequency response on axis.

I would argue that non of the tested speakers would be at all suitable as quality monitor for recording and that if used in a domestic setting they would be incapable of providing any sensible degree of fidelity.

wolfgang said:
Some years back I bought some AVI Pronines after reading that a SOS magazine reviewer says these make a nice and accurate sound suitable for monitoring in studios. Got them back and they sounds nice to my ears even after a few hours and yet look acceptable enough to house in among the other furnitures in the living room. They seems to make CDs sound closer to those I heard in concert halls. Did I got this wrong again as one is not supposed to get accurate speakers for home use?
Click to expand...

You should get for use at home whatever satisfies your taste and makes you wanting to listen to music. I personally feel that most true high quality monitors (note that my definition of "Monitor" implies something with rather format, usually one or two 15" Woofers and suitable matching midrange/Treble solutions and NOT the audiophile notion of "monitor" as a small 2-Way speaker) are a little too surgical, a little too revealing to allow me to enjoy substandard quality recordings.

So I tend to alternate over time between studio systems and rather "far leftfield" domestic systems (eg Lowther, Goodmans Axiom, Schulze KSP215).

Ciao T
 
Hi,

The Devil said:
Speakers can be "too revealing"?!
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I always consider the system.

The Devil said:
Can sources be "too good"?
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No, but they can be "too bad". Remember, the ultimate source is the performance, the penultimate one the released recording. Many commercial recordings throughout the decades areposessed of a poor recording quality but great music. In fact, there often seems to be inversely proprtional relation between the quality of the recording and the quality of the music since the mid 1970's.

Ciao T
 
Chaps

There was a recent thread on PFM about ATC preamps and it generated into the saddest, dull, depressing and boring piece of unmitigated bullshit I and thousands of other people had ever read.

A few regular contributors were exposed as really sad. depressing and boring nerds. If you do not believe me, this read this load of garbage.

http://63.99.108.232/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11252

That thread will go down in history as the shame of Hifi fora.

This thread is going that way. Do you really want to be compared to that bunch of saddoes.

Regards

Mick
 
well that PFM thread was very unrewarding.

we are all trainees ... shame if asking a question, or volunteering an opinion is so effectively discouraged
 
Ditton

There is a massive difference between asking a question and getting a sensible answer and the pile of drivel that thread degenerated into.

Regards

Mick
 
wadia-miester said:
Not with cds2 I feel James. However a good punt at a retort
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The CDS2 seems to be universally highly-regarded, except with the real experts - eh, Tony?

Well, if a source can never be "too revealing", then how can any other piece of equipment in the playback chain be "too revealing"? It's illogical bollox, put about by the hi-fi mags.

There is no point in moaning about recording quality because there's nothing we can do about it.
 
Oh, I know. I'm told that the results are, sadly, not quite as good, old chap. :)

P.S. I do have to wonder whether my hi-fi would be getting quite the same level of deprecation from you, had I bought some of the accessories which you were peddling. We will never know.
 
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