Burn in. myth or not?

I have gone thro many pair of bicycle saddles and believe me those thing don't get any more comfortable due to break-in if anything it is all about finding the right saddle for your bum shape first of all but also make sure you get the correct frame size. They all hurts at first like the guitar strings, but after awhile your skin on the finger tips get harden with use. There is not magic but there is always a logical explanation in the end. Errr.......what you say Tones, we are talking about BURN IN......doh........

well not really sure but if the loudspeakers sound good from the beginning then it is usually a good sign.

 

I believe the moon is made of cheese. Trouble is... IT ISN'T.

 

Hello
I am new here, so I hope I dont upset anyone.

I am in the "person gets used to the sound camp". No other electronics field has heard of burn in, running in etc.

I work for a company that makes sensitive measuring equipment for various industries. Our machines dont get better as they are used. They do break down occasionally, but doesnt everything.?

 

I think that anything with moving parts gets to an optimum prformance level ( eg a cars engine is better after a little running in) after that then is on the road to worn out. On the way up to that optimum performance level the sound improves but there is also an amount of Getting used to.
On the way down from the optimum performace level the sound gets slightly worse but by this time you have been infected with upgraditis and no longer own the speakers any more.!!!!!

My missus is due to hit her optimum performance level in a few years, but i may have upgraded by this time...to a CHEAPER model!!!!

 

Hi Tom,

I believe you are in the R-K-R 'camp'. For me, this says it all.

RKR reckons that the sax on "The girl from Ipanema" suffers from mic saturation distortion. In fact, it doesn't. So his system is farked. And he is advising others on how to 'mains optimise' their systems - at great inconvenience & expense.

No ta!

OTOH, new speakers & cartridges do need to 'run-in' from a mechanical POV. Not wires though.

 

I left all the hi-fi fora 'cos of this sort of bickering and foolishly I've let myself be drawn back in but while I'm here....

Bub

Yes I am of the RKR camp when it comes to mains but he & I definitely are listening to different aspects of the music so trying to discredit me because of his musical taste isn't going to wash. Nor will insinuating that I am in no position to comment 'cos I have made those mains upgrades.

Back on topic I will repeat what I said earlier. I do hear the changes during burn in and have always done so. I fully accept that others don't. The one thing I don't do is suggest that you are deaf/not listening properly/have no right to a decent hi-fi/should get a decent hi-fi. In turn please do me the courtesy of accepting that I do hear it with out ridicule or insult. (Yeah I know that's no fun but please try)

 

I put this to test with double shielded 20A mains cable (RAYDEX Part No. RD8507) I got few months back.

I cut one 1m length and put it use straight away.
Another 1m length was cut and kept unused in its 'virgin' state.
The rest was connected to a gang socket and used in the kitchen to power fridge freezer, washing machine, microwave and an electric kettle.

About 5 weeks later all 3 cables were tested as power cords for an Arcam A85 amp. 3 people including myself thought the cable used in the kitchen sounded better. Neither of the other two persons knew which cable was being tested.

BTW.
This cable was also hard-wired into a DAC and a CDP. No improvement was noticed with either.

 

Hi Tom,

You perceive what you perceive. Why you perceive it is another matter. How can I 'discredit' you? I'm disagreeing, but if you call it bickering, that's just another perception.

 

After ten years of hi-fi fora I suddenly realised that

• I'd been saying the same thing to the same people
• No one ever changes their opinion
• I have nothing left to say that hasn't been said before a thousand times and nothing will ever change..
• I have reached audio nirvana

Goodbye

 

This seems promising. It seems you are suggesting this is a kind of SBT. Would you like to elaborate on how this was done?

 

Burn in exists. My whole system sounded very murky when I first bought it, and whenever I've changed the voltage regulators on my DIY dac they sounded steely and grainy until they'd had a few hours play. New caps don't seem to need burn in though.

I don't believe in warm up for my solid state electronics. I switch everything off overnight and the sound is no different the next day.

The sound does change throughout the day, but this must be environmental as it happens regardless of how long the kit has been on.

 

IMO it's definitely a real effect. I've noticed it most significantly with cartridges and also with cabling

 

The three cables were conected to a well shielded gang socket I made up. IEC connectors of these were left right behind the amp for fast swapping over. Same tracks were played with each cable. Only I knew which cable was being used. Ratings (1-5) were noted on a table.

Four different CDs with classical and instrumental jazz music were used.

 

Burn in is most definitely a factor for valves at least..... I tried a side-by-side comparison a few years ago when I bought 2 sets at the same time. After running the first set for 60 hours or so I put in the second set and yuck

 

If burn in doesn't exist,why does my amp sound horrid when cold? isn't warming up and burning in basically the same thing?

 

I don't think so. My amp takes an hour or so to get going really well - after about 40-45mins or so the soundstage really seems to come into focus....

This seems to be true whether or not the valves are 'burned in' (I rekon 50-60 hours use) - but the burned in ones seem to be able to go to a 'higher level' than the brand new ones do, and have a much sweeter sound ....... (at least to my ears anyway !)

 

So still no takers on what actually burns in on a cdp then?

'Warm up' helps with the thermal stability of the components I would have thought.
Valves do get better after the first few hours because any surface contaminents get burnt off.

 

Lee,
I would think moving parts in a CDp would run in, motor bearing mech bearings etc..
All i can think of.

 

So are you saying the transport bearing tolerence gets worse and changes the sound?

 

No
As bearings run in they tend to lose roughness, Like running in a car (apart from rings ) Some bearings aswell, like C3 types, need to get to operating temperature before reaching correct tolerance. Bearings are often manufactured with a tighter than required tolerance, this will settle to the required tolerance after some use. It may only be a few microns.