Burn in. myth or not?

The design is not ours Its Audioharma's, they are 4 makes of this type as far as we are aware.
However, we have built a adaptive version with different apects to it.
The principle is based on a very high band width signal (almost vertical wave form), with a large capatance charge, at set and varing intervals, with different rating for each type of cable.
 
There is little doubt that some hi-fi gear takes a while to 'warm up'. This is reasonably understandable and can be explained by 'the laws of physics'.

Cable burn-in, directionality and the rest is pure poppycock.

The convoluted logic RKR uses to justify his 'results' in this field is about as believable as good old Peter Belt was. The recent Burndy direction conundrums on the Naim forum were justified by the wild assumption that Naim had changed the orientation of their 'test speakers' in their room. Brilliantly inventive.
 
The Devil said:
Cable burn-in, directionality and the rest is pure poppycock.
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IYHO, stop being so matter of fact, you ahve no proof that it doesn't exist, others disagree. directionality can be apparent if cable sheild is earthed at one end only, I'm not sure about burn in either, can't say I've noticed, but some swear by it.

I've allways had the philosophy that if you bring any new equipment home and it sounds crap when warm, then it will allways sound crap, if there is any burn in, (I have noticed it in speakers), then the kit should still sound good, but will be better with some running in, if not then chances are you have made wrong choice, I beleive all these things, cables burn in etc do make some difference but it is very subtle and not huge revelation that the comics would have you believe.
P
 
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Wouldn't it be comforting to the brain if everything could be scientifically explained!
May be one day, though very unlikely.

In the meantime, judge by the results.
 
my cables are certainly directional. if i plug them in one way they sound great. if i plug them in the other way all the magic smoke comes out of my amp and it stops working.
sorry james, you're wrong again ;)...
cheers


julian
 
I had a wee look and it seems that my mains cables ARE directional, if I swap it round the 13amp plug won't fit my amp nad the iec is a bugger to stick in the wall :)
 
Directionality is claimed for cables that carry DC. Not AC

Here is an explanation by R&D Engineers at Philex who make Thor interconnects.

Drawn copper has a grain structure that can be thought of as tiny discontinuities in the copper. The signal can be adversely affected by traversing these grains; the grain boundary can act as a tiny circuit, with capacitance, inductance, and a diode effect. Standard copper has about 1500 grains per foot; LC copper has about 70 grains per foot. Fig.11-5 shows the grain structure in copper having 400 grains per foot. Note that the copper isn't isotropic; it looks decidedly different in one direction than the other. All copper made into thin wires exhibits a chevron structure, shown in the photograph of Fig.11-5.

This chevron structure may explain why some interconnects sound different when reversed.

Conductors are made by casting a thick rod, then drawing the copper into a smaller gauge. Another technique-which is rare and expensive-is called "as-cast." This method casts the copper into the final size without the need for drawing.

The highest-quality technique for drawing copper is called "Ohno Continuous Casting" or OCC. OCC copper has one grain in about 700 feet-far less than even LC copper. The audio signal travels through a continuous conductor instead of traversing grain boundaries. Because OCC is a process that can be performed on any purity of copper, not all OCC copper is equal.

PS.
I don't have the "Fig.11-5" saved. Sorry.

Proof? Try it for yourself!
 
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BlueMax said:
Here is an explanation by R&D Engineers at Philex
Click to expand...

Are they saying they discovered this technology? Because I believe OCC is patented and proprietary to the WAN LUNG ELECTRONIC WIRE & CABLE MFG. CO., LTD. of TW. Or, are they just doing a Chord?

BlueMax said:
Proof? Try it for yourself
Click to expand...
I have (copper and silver OCC Neotechs), and I can't tell the difference between them and my Mogami mic cable interconnects.
 
Nope my AC MAINS cables are definately directional, tried turning round other way nothing, proper way power and sound, could be something to do with the plugs though.
 
don't want to try turning my townshend isolda the other way round, those zobel networks need to go at the amp end or bye bye magic smoke. definately directional - one way heavenly music - the other way silence - can;t get much more extreme than that.
cheers


julian
 
grivois said:
Are they saying they discovered this technology? Because I believe OCC is patented and proprietary to the WAN LUNG ELECTRONIC WIRE & CABLE MFG. CO., LTD. of TW. Or, are they just doing a Chord?


I have (copper and silver OCC Neotechs), and I can't tell the difference between them and my Mogami mic cable interconnects.
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Well wang-lung make cables for the following Vampire wire, Neotech is THEIR brand, Acoustic Zen, Harmonic Technologies, Ecosse (I'm lead to believe), made the odd chord stuff (not too sure on this) anything/one that claims CCC uses this place, they also provide a few other companies with there stuff.
As for A/c directionality, as it goes where it wants, it should be total B/S (I don't dispute the thereoy), however differenices can and are detected by more than one or two people, who arn't audiophiles either :eek:
 
This one will run and run eh!

For what it's worth I am pretty comfortable with the idea of cable burn in (which is not to say that I don't believe in the mind settling down to a sound it is not used to over time) I use the Audioharma toaster, and feel it adds something worthwhile to the sound of speaker and interconnect cables, not sure about power cables yet. In standard form it is good, though I won't suggest I know what or why or how, those arguments don't seem to make anyone any happier!
 
Dev said:
Who's RKR?
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Roy Riches. He's a chap (retired engineer) who has coordinated the efforts of many who have been exploring "optimisation" of mains supply. Although he can appear as fanatical about mains as others are about the "perceived" benefits of Mana he is actually a very helpful and pleasant character who just wishes others to know the benefits of his experimentation. I will readily accept he has his detractors but there again so do hi-fi manufacturers who sell directional cables etc. Unfortuantely he is a little too single track on these fora and this has caused him to take flack. However his views or at least some of them are now being accepted by the hi-fi industry and are beginning to find their way in recording studios etc. The main thrust of his argument is that for a little hard work and small cost you can significantly improve the performance of your equipment. Obviously going the whole hog will be more expensive than making just some of the small adjustments but for relatively lower expenditure you can make great gains.

At the simplist level he, I and others suggest that sorting the room, mains and stands first will bring greater improvement than by throwing money at boxes.

The findings made by him and others over the last few years has been compiled into a large word document which explains the various aspects of creating a dedicated mains supply for your hi-fi. If you want to see it I can send you a copy.
 
Alex S, is another chap who has the Full RKR 10mm treatment with about 6 seperate spurs, looks like sub station junction running acrossing his workshop (very neat job though) It can be improved upon by a fair way, but as Tom has cited its a good place to start and isolating your hifi from your internal noises will do you system no harm at all, plus its relatively cheap too.
We built a test room with 3 set wiring set ups a standard 2.5mm, mid way 6mm, and full monty 10mm all with quality consumer units, switchless plugs MCB's all cryo'd.
The results we rather surprising, and dependant on weather you were going to run any further 'post wall conditioning'
I personaly run 6mm T+E & 2 blue Led's :cool:
Worth a serious look at and it works well too :)
 
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