Freezing CDs?

tuga said:
That's what they all say... at the psychiatry ward. :MILD:
Click to expand...


tuga,

Last night I used some rubber, derived foc (actually ex-vehicle inner tubes) to damp my valve amp.

The result was a clear deepening of the bass on Brahms "Clarinet Quintet Opus 115".

The result was almost an amp up grade....for (virtually) nothing.

Now you tell me who is mad?
 
David,

Audio has all to do with physics. With this in mind you can improve a component's performance.

On the other hand...

Many identify any change in sound as an improvement.

Many invest as much money in accessories as they do in (vital) components, just like others invest as much money in tuning their Fiat Uno as they did in the car.

Many (obsessed) spend more time looking for changes in sound rather than actually listening to music.

And there's a great deal of mythology built around accessories and tweaks. We can thank the industry financed audio magazines and reviewers for that.

Cheers,
Tuga
 
tuga said:
David,

Audio has all to do with physics. With this in mind you can improve a component's performance.

On the other hand...

Many identify any change in sound as an improvement.

Many invest as much money in accessories as they do in (vital) components, just like others invest as much money in tuning their Fiat Uno as they did in the car.

Many (obsessed) spend more time looking for changes in sound rather than actually listening to music.

And there's a great deal of mythology built around accessories and tweaks. We can thank the industry financed audio magazines and reviewers for that.

Cheers,
Tuga
Click to expand...



Yes, unfortunately this is the case.

It gives the whole subject a very bad impression.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
an obsession with sound ...now thats odd because you've just described hifi addict/audiophile ....now an obsession with music is something else all together

I like to think I'm getting everything possible from the source data to my ears ..which includes all the musical nuances and anything else that may have been recorded ..including traffic noise or the expansion of the heating pipes in the cold recording studio

someone who is interested in music only is not necessarily going to be all that worried about absolute fidelity ....though I've known exceptions.


Who exactly identifies any change as improvement ...? I can list endless cases of thing I've tried that have made no difference ie to name just a few

using a bag filled with sand to place my cd on
using a bag filled with pea gravel to place my cd on
using a bag filled with lentels to place my cd on
using a bag filled with cotton wool to place my cd on
using a bag filled with polystyrene beads to place my cd on
using a bag filled with air to place my cd on
using a bag filled with sand placed on top of my
using a bag filled with pea gravel placed on top of my
using a bag filled with lentels placed on top of my....etc

none of which made a positive improvment and some even degredated the sound....

I can then go on to discuss the all the experimental cables I've built that sounded dreadful but a list of about 230 cable recipes is likely to be rather boring ..

Anyone who has experimented and its rather obvious tuga has not [for what ever reason ]will not report negative results ...what exactly would the point be ? So let put that facile argument to bed ...


If you have an idealogical reason why you can't accept these results says so ....

I't won't bother me ...I shan't tell you you have to go out and do it ...or even believe it

Conversely you telling me something is impossible [in your opinion ] When I've just spent four hours doing exhaustive listening tests is frankly arrogant and insulting .....

Now if it was only myself reporting this you may have had a point....but I was confirming reports from numerous other people .....so sorry your just wrong on almost all counts..


You will notice if you read back through my posts that I was fairly skeptical that freezing a cd would have any effect ....so it turns out I was wrong ....

I'm happy to hold my hands up and say that ...I'm not fallible but at least I got of my back side and tried it ...unlike some.

I will reiterate for those unable to precis ....yes it makes a small difference ...I will not be freezing my whole collection ....if you want to improve the sound of your discs ..buy a cd lathe as the benfits are imo about a magnitude of 10 greater than freezing ...
 
DavidF said:
tuga,

Last night I used some rubber, derived foc (actually ex-vehicle inner tubes) to damp my valve amp.

The result was a clear deepening of the bass on Brahms "Clarinet Quintet Opus 115".

The result was almost an amp up grade....for (virtually) nothing.

Now you tell me who is mad?
Click to expand...

Different thing entirely David.
Valve amps can be very microphonic, so some damping materials can change the sound but for perfectly logical reasons that are measurable.

To give you some idea, I ran a World Designs tube pre amp for a couple of years this used only one tube with loads of gain in the circuit. Gently brushing the glass envelope or tapping it lightly produced not only horrid noise through the speakers but could induce HF oscillation. Now some tubes were better than others, but all performed much better with a damper on the valve envelope and with the pre amp case sitting on sorbothane.

That is a world away from freezing bits of polycarbonate.

There is genuinely striving to make equipment work at it's optimum, and there is pissing in the wind ;)
 
zanash said:
If you have an idealogical reason why you can't accept these results says so ....

I't won't bother me ...I shan't tell you you have to go out and do it ...or even believe it
Click to expand...

I have three:

First, and most importantly, you are a sample of one, and your test wasn't blinded. Then you persuaded your poor wife in another unblinded test that she could hear a difference also. This is "not even wrong" (wiki it).

Secondly, there is no earthly reason why freeze/thawing a CD should improve it. If anything, it might cause damage.

Thirdly, you are a purveyor of magical/mystical cables, and therefore it's in your commercial interest that people believe in this sort of tomfoolery.
 
RobHolt said:
Different thing entirely David.
Valve amps can be very microphonic, so some damping materials can change the sound but for perfectly logical reasons that are measurable....

....That is a world away from freezing bits of polycarbonate.

There is genuinely striving to make equipment work at it's optimum, and there is pissing in the wind ;)
Click to expand...


True.

No offence to the OP but I thought the idea went out with the dodo long ago.

I'm very happy to be proved wrong though.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Freeze Result.

The Cd Spent 2 days in the Freezer then 2 days in the Cooler, it was then left to return to room temp before playing.

The experiment was entered with such as this in mind... The domination of the public way in which things have been interpreted has already decided upon even the possibilities of being attuned, that is, about the basic way in which Da-sein lets itself be affected by the world. The they prescribes that attunement, it determines what and how one "sees." Heidegger.

The CD's used were: Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus.

Both the frozen and unfrozen CD were played to me, therefore i had no idea which was which. The test was marked. Each Cd A/B was played '12' times on '12' identical musical portions of either CD, playing of the CD's was varied not alternate (not succeeding by turns) and consisted of '1' to '3' minutes play of each.

The Result

This was marked as a simple 'Yes' for Frozen and 'No' for Unfrozen. I Correctly identified the Frozen CD on '10' Occasions from the '12' played. I Correctly identified the Unfrozen CD on '10' Occasions of the '12' Played.
Of the '4' wrongly Identified , '3' were scored as unfrozen and '1' was scored as frozen.

The difference as 'I hear it' ?

The Frozen CD has sharper edge, clearer more defined, the movement over the strings of the Bass being more pronounced, having more depth on the Frozen. On the unfrozen, this was much weaker and unnoticed, a lesser part of the experience. Voice on the Frozen CD was realer..fuller... more 'in the moment' with a greater sense of definite distance and movement around the microphone.
The conversation between Bass and Bass Clarinet on 'What is Love' was more 'zZingy', had more of a smacking blow of freshness.

Before i received (by post) an Exact copy of my CD by Mingus , i had used a CD recorder to Copy the Mingus CD before i froze it, i did feel that i had a slight preference for the copied Cd, it was i felt, a little less noisy and slightly more defined. I have again played the CD after the Freeze against the home recorded copy, the frozen is an unquestionable improvement whilst the unfrozen (genuine) CD gives me the same sense as before.. in that i prefer the recorded copy.

Three other listeners have used three easy B's to explain the unfrozen CD, Blurry.. Bland and Bottled

Thanks :)
 
spica said:
The Frozen CD has sharper edge, clearer more defined, the movement over the strings of the Bass being more pronounced, having more depth on the Frozen. On the unfrozen, this was much weaker and unnoticed, a lesser part of the experience. Voice on the Frozen CD was realer..fuller... more 'in the moment' with a greater sense of definite distance and movement around the microphone.
The conversation between Bass and Bass Clarinet on 'What is Love' was more 'zZingy', had more of a smacking blow of freshness.
Click to expand...

Interesting. With clear differences like those, how did you fail to score 100%?
 
This is all interesting stuff but one thing has always bothered me about this "tweak".

If the improvements are due to material changes in the CDs, I find it hard to believe that a domestic freezer can go cold enough to exact those changes.
 
The Devil said:
Why can't you post proper objections to my posts?
Click to expand...


Your posts are hardly proper themselves...

:D

Using silly terms like mystical/magical cables is hardly a way to get respect....certainly not mine.


The Devil said:
And why do you, and the others like you, object so strenuously when your potty ideas are challenged?
Click to expand...


Because you are constantly so rude.

FWIW if you are suggesting microphany+vibration management are potty ideas you are about to make yourself look very silly indeed.

Its a very big subject.


:)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Seeker_UK said:
This is all interesting stuff but one thing has always bothered me about this "tweak".

If the improvements are due to material changes in the CDs, I find it hard to believe that a domestic freezer can go cold enough to exact those changes.
Click to expand...

Could be something as simple as a surface cleaning effect of freezing airborne moisture onto the surface of the disc and then slowly thawing it. A quick wipe with clean water should have the same effect. Fwiw i have not tried this, just postulating a potential mechanism for the apparent effect.
 
DavidF said:
FWIW if you are suggesting microphany+vibration management are potty ideas you are about to make yourself look very silly indeed.

Its a very big subject.

:)
Click to expand...

David,

Vibration control is a very important subject and will definitely bring improvements if addressed properly (scientifically); like I've mentioned in a previous post, it's all about physics.
The same can be said for signal cable design.

I've got nothing against people "experimenting" with their gear if they like to "get their hands dirty" (I wish I were more gifted myself) but why not do it correctly?
Other approaches are just plain "hocus-pocus" and even if they accidentally turn up good results, there's no way one would be able to find out the whys, the hows and the what ifs... Pretty pointless, I'd say.

Then there's the subject of the comparison/evaluation method but I won't go into that...

Cheers,
Tuga
 
tuga said:
David,

Vibration control is a very important subject and will definitely bring improvements if addressed properly (scientifically); like I've mentioned in a previous post, it's all about physics.
The same can be said for signal cable design.

I've got nothing against people "experimenting" with their gear if they like to "get their hands dirty" (I wish I were more gifted myself) but why not do it correctly?
Other approaches are just plain "hocus-pocus" and even if they accidentally turn up good results, there's no way one would be able to find out the whys, the hows and the what ifs... Pretty pointless, I'd say.

Then there's the subject of the comparison/evaluation method but I won't go into that...

Cheers,
Tuga
Click to expand...


I can only really speak for myself here....

There is nothing I would like to do more than to do an indepth study of the why and wherefores of cables but changes at work (and home also,,,,,my dad is now in his late 70's) mean I I've had to start studying an entirely different subject .....Polish actually.

So I have to adopt a division of labour....

Though the money has now pretty much dried up ......I would trust various forum contributors who do have the knowledge to point me in the right direction in matters hifi ......and I still recall what a pair of plat alloy cables did to my system :).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
DavidF said:
Your posts are hardly proper themselves...

Because you are constantly so rude.

FWIW if you are suggesting microphany+vibration management are potty ideas you are about to make yourself look very silly indeed.
Click to expand...

My posts are entirely proper and not the least bit rude. I'm not talking about vibration, I'm talking about this freezer idea.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top