Got me a record player!

M'Lud I wish to present to the Court Exhibit 'A'...........

"I don't think so, Steve, I also have both and enjoy both. I have this problem that I can't hear a difference between my LP12/Ekos/Klyde and my Mimik. Actually, I do listen to them at the same time - my favourite trick is to put on the vinyl and the CD of Pinnock's recording of Handel's Water Music (a recording I know backwards) simultaneously, switch between them and try to tell which one's which. It's easy - the vinyl clicks and pops and the CD doesn't, and that's all (no kidding). I personally don't regard this as a problem, as it means that I don't have to spend endless amounts of money in trying to improve what I can't hear. I have no problem with folk who find vinyl stunningly superior, (un)lucky them, I say. I just hope that they remember that it can't be extrapolated from their specific case to a general case. Ultimately it all lies in the ears of the beholder, be they good or bad."

As the Jury can assertain here, one of the best pieces of 'Fence sitting' evidence I have yet come accross
also very valid too, go Tones thrash that Ear trumpet mate

 

Defence evidence comes from Linn themselves who staged a public shoot-out between their top-spec LP12 and the CD12.

The majority of those present preferred the LP12, which wasn't the result Linn were hoping for.

Tones, you are a very nice chap, but I have to say that if you can't hear a difference then either your gear is set up rather peculiarly, or you are actually a wee bit hard of hearing.

 

Thanks, Bub, I try hard (mainly people's patience), and I acknowledge that you could be correct in either or both of the set-up or hearing. However, the local Linn man set up the LP12 and it seems to bounce nicely on its suspension. I'm afraid I'm stuck with the hearing and its inadequacies. As with the Mana, I'd like (really) to hear a difference, simply because so many of you do, but I don't. Having said my piece, I promise I shall never raise the subject again and live quietly with my shortcomings.

 

James - I have over 500 CDs and not a single LP so what exactly would I use a turntable for? :MILD:

I'm not about to start collecting LPs. I'm more than happy with redbook CD. As Jimmy Hughes said in the latest HiFi+ (talking about new formats etc):

Having recently got a DAC64 myself I have to say I couldn't agree more

Michael.

 

Michael: it all depends on how far you want to take things. Collecting vinyl isn't a chore, it's fun. s/h records cost a small fraction of the CD equivalent and offer (arguably?, - well not really) better sound quality. Surface noise is simply not an issue with a good TT - this is how the Ninja got its name.

I've been using TTs for over twenty years, CD for about five or six years so I have more LPs than CDs. But if you've only 500 CDs it shouldn't take too long to catch up with the vinyl.

 

Hey Steve,

I understand where you are coming in seeking an explanation why anyone 'needs' to make judgements about vinyl's superiority over CD and vice versa but equally, why can't someone express a personal opinion as to whether (in their system) vinyl is better than CD or vice versa especially when comparing LP & CD discs of the same album title? If they made a blanket statement (to be accepted as universal truth) to the 'fact' that vinyl was better than CD or vice-versa, period, end of verse, end of chapter, then it would be worth challenging. But if they were referring to their own situtations at home, then I see nothing wrong with that.

FWIW, I have both TT & CDP and enjoy both. I have only two CDs for which I also have the LPs. Both the LPs were recorded from digital (PCM) masters and it's plain to hear that when on the TT as the sound is very different to those recorded from analogue masters. The rest of my LPs were recorded from either analogue masters or DSD masters. The latter sounds far superior to LPs recorded from PCM (16/44.1) masters. So I don't have this issue of comparing vinyl to CDs as I have very little overlap between the two formats. I choose a day or evening on which I listen to music (actually listen, not as background music) to only the TT and another evening it would be the CD player. As I stated somewhere else before, rivalry between source components is not something that is tolerated at Lawrie Towers. So let the music play and on and at the same time, one and all ........................




Enjoy the music,

Lawrie

 

Tones, how did you manage to get a cd player with the exact same colorations as the LP12? I suppose there must be quite a market for such things. :duck:

Steve

 

Collecting LPs is easier said than done, especially if you live somewhere like Portugal like I do where the market for LPs is almost zero and that's reflected in their availability. You can't buy LPs on Amazon (at least I don't think you can) and that's now the place where I get the majority of my CDs. You also can't play LPs in the car or round at your mates house (unless your mate is also an audiophool) and you have to take great care of them.

For the availability and convenience of CD I'm more than willing to pay the price of allegedly inferior sound quality (which has never yet been demonstrated to me).

If I add a second format it will most likely be SACD at some time in the future when it is more established allthough I wonder what kind of a future any physical music medium has (compared to downloaded or even streamed hi-rez digital music).

Michael.

 

Loads of people have turntables without using them. You know the scenario ... stylus needs replacing ... listens to cds in the meantime ... doesn't quite get around to replacing the stylus ... forgets what that impressive and attractive piece of kit standing next to the hi-fi electronics is for.

Turntables make an excellent room decoration, a handy driving mechanism for a children's mobile and, apart from that, lend true credibility to your image as a hi-fi cogniscenti. How could you not have one? :music:

Steve

 

Not strictly correct Michael. I recently purchased the Verve Remixed 3 LP set from Amazon and I don't live in the U.K. They hold a much smaller selction of LPs than other places but they do sell them. See http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...78627/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_2_4/202-6622114-4579000





Enjoy the music,

Lawrie

 

OK Lawrie, so you can buy the odd bit of vinyl on Amazon but for the vast majority of CDs I've bought recently I've never seen a vinyl option and when there is one (I've just looked up a couple) the cost is double the cost of the CD!

I'm sure that if I was older (and therefore had built up a vinyl collection before CD existed) I would have a TT and enjoy it immensely along with my digital front end. I'd also buy new vinyl releases and harp on about the benefits of vinyl here but I 'switched' to CD before I was an audiophile and when I only had about 5 LPs.

For me it's just not worth starting an LP collection now for all the reasons I've already mentioned. If I was seriously into 70s music, jazz or 50s-70s classical recordings then I'm sure I'd strongly consider it as that music is undoubtedly better on vinyl than on dodgy 80s CD remasters (and frequently is only available on vinyl) but I'm not so I won't

Michael.

 

Amazon: as Lawrie says, Amazon sell quite a lot of vinyl.

General availability: I have no problem finding more vinyl, new or old, than I can cope with, but I do live in London, which undoubtedly makes life much more fun. Even if you're stuck in godawful Portugal you can order stuff from the net. How about http://www.recordsbymail.com/ - they have something like a million items in stock at any time, and deliver from the US in about a week on average.

Sound: I've said this before, but it isn't really about sound at all. It's about having access to thousands of records that have never made it onto CD, or only in poor digital remasters. As someone who listens to a lot of jazz and reggae, not having a turntable makes no sense to me at all.

I've had a turntable for most of my life, about 30 years. It would feel deeply strange not to have one.

-- Ian

 

You need to ask a Mr. Tiefenbrunn that - his company also makes the Mimik. Coincidence?

What will be interesting will be a comparison with the soon-to-arrive Meridian 588 of Ian ("Sideshowbob") - it appears I underwrote Ian's purchase of an Ortofon Rohmann!

 

I bought my first hifi before CDs, and I did buy a TT, the Technics tangential arm thing, really neat, my father used it until he passed away, still have it somewhere, but never bought even one LP...

CDs where already announced, so I used K7s until it was available (handy to listen in the car too), does it make any sense to start now... :JPS:

 

Hey Michael,

That's a cop-out and you know it. I am a young(ish) guy who grew up on the CD culture but bought my first ever TT (with no LPs whatsoever to my name) just under a year ago. Old HFC Forum regulars would remember me asking for TT advice as I knew zilch. The reason I bought the TT was that I love live concerts and live jazz in particular and I've always felt that jazz especially those mastered in analogue form from the 40s, 50s, 50s and 70s (which I know you are not into) should be listened to on a turntable not on a CD player. It is a personal thing and I'm glad I bought the TT as jazz CDs never gave me the feeling that I was in a dark and broody jazz club listening to four guys do their thing regardless of the quality or cost of the CD player I might add. However, I do get that with vinyl. Also, as a bonus, different styles of music also sound very good on the TT so my LP collection is rapidly expanding. Modern dance and latino music which I also enjoy are played on the CD player.

In terms of buying LPs, I am lucky because one of the largest vinyl fairs in Europe with LP dealers coming from several different countries is held twice a year at an exhibition centre just 20 mins drive from my house. Also, once every three months, several LP dealers do a street sale or fair with new and second-hand LPs (including audiophile LPs) on offer. From these two shindigs and other internet sources, I have now built up a good (to start with) LP collection made up of mainly mint second-hand LPs and some new ones (only analogue mastered re-issues) thrown in for good measure. Having said all that, the Chord DAC64 Mk II is on my shorlist of DACs to audition.




Enjoy the music,

Lawrie

 

I don't think it is. Starting with a TT and vinyl simply doesn't make any sense to me at all and I'm not into the type of music that really 'demands' a TT (like sideshow is). I can see that others might have different opinions. I've no doubt it would be fun and I probably could find enough LPs to keep me happy (btw sideshow, ordering from the US to Portugal is a total no-no because of the absurd Portuguese customs charges) but I simply don't have a need for it. I'm more than happy with CD and for the inevitable expense of a decent TT setup I'd much rather spend it on other parts of my system or more CDs

I get that with my DAC64MkII

When you do, I'm sure you'll get a decent s/h price for your TT as you won't be needing it anymore

Michael.

 

LOL, here Michael. I walked into that one. I guess I should have seen it coming. Btw, I heard a few conflicting stories on the DAC64 but I will put up another thread for owners' experiences with that DAC.




Enjoy the music,

Lawrie

 

Michael, what sort of music do you listen to I am interested, because I would not have thought that the vinyl copies of some recent dance and acoustic music would be more enjoyable than the equivalent CDs but that was not what I found.

I'm with you though, that it really is just sadly too much hassle. I have enough neurosis in my life without adding to it by getting seriously into vinyl. But, just for your reference, just get a TT homw and relax with it for a week or so. If you hear what I think I did, you will understand the comments of the vinyl mafia. I may, at the end of the day be sticking to the digital route, but I now accept that analogue replay possesses a magic that you cannot get with CD (even one of those Chord jobbies ) I just hope I don't miss it too much Let's see if i can go cold turkey, or if the black stuff has got it's claws into me I'm going to be trying some SACD Patches to help me through the worst of it

 

Mike - the music I listen to is very varied but in summary:
Classical from about 1850 to the present + Vivaldi (the only baroque compose I can stand) Nearly all my classical CDs are of recent(ish) digital recordings with a few notable exceptions (eg my Solti Wagner Ring Cycle which is form the 60s but the CD is very good).

World music (I hate that term) but bascially a lot of more acoustic latin, traditional European (eg Spanish Flamenco, Portuguese Fado) and African stuff. I don't know if you call it World or Jazz but I'm massively into bossanova (Getz, Gilberto, Jobim etc and their modern day "followers").

Jazz - very little, allthough I like a lot of, shall we say, "traditional" jazz but know very little about it and consequently by very few CDs. An area I've always wanted to get into more but haven't been able to for some reason

Downtempo/chillout/trip-hop - probably my biggest thing at the moment. Air, Nitin, Moby, Royksopp, Aim, LemonJelly, Bonobo, Koop, Blue States, the Costes and Cafe del Mar collections, etc. etc.

Dance/drum & bass - Leftfield, Groove Armada, BT, Apollo 440 and similar stuff I can't remember (plus a load of "Ibiza" compilations :shame: )

Rock - I have a huge amount of this, Blur, REM, Radiohead, Madonna, Michael Jackson, Beatles, Bowie, Pink Floyd, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Pixies, Concrete Blonde - the list goes on, but recently I've hardly listened to any of it. My taste for rock music has definitely "waned" in the last year or so.

I'm sure that I might find some of that lot more enjoyable on vinyl but as you so eloquently put it "it's not worth the hassle" for me. At some point I might see if I can borrow a TT (and some LPs!) just to see what all the fuss is about but I seriously doubt it would make me want to own one.

The only comparison I heard recently was at a hifi shop in Lisbon that was demming the new MF A308 range. They had the CDP and amp going into some Dynaudio Contour 3.3s and it didn't sound bad at all - they then stuck on an Avid TT of some kind (don't remember the model but it looked fooking expensive) and played a range of LPs. Compared to the MF CDP it sounded utter shite to me and it wasn't badly setup because the two vinyl buffs who were there aswell (and had brought a couple of LPs) were loving it They just couldn't believe I thought it sounded shite. In summary, it was all warm and bloomy, no soundstage, rather like listening to one of those old mono valve radios your grandad used to have (big wooden box with a knob at each end and the freq. scale in the middle).

Michael.

 

[Anal scientist mode on]

So basically then, all they managed to prove was that on the day, the LP12 was better than the CD12. You still cant extrapolate this to say vinyl is better than CD!

[anal scientist mode off]

Robbo