Heathrow show.....

3DSonics said:
The Amp's are hybrids BTW, not Valve.

Ciao T
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Are you sure about that?

I thought the same looking at them but from what I picked up, and I did spend quite some time in the room at the end with just the designers, they are valve but the power valves were inside the case using the fins to achieve efficient cooling. For the size of them, if they were hybrid, I'd expect a whole lot more than 150watts!
 
In general I thought the King Audio stats were one of the better speakers at the show even if I didn't like the coloration on the high frequencies when listening to my classical music (I couldn't be much aware about it when listening to other music I didn't know and not the genres I usually hear).

3DSonics said:
I "dont get" most stats, they do one thing great and about nothing else and the one thing they do well is not high on my list of desirables.
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I suppose this can be applied to so many speakers that it would be easier to list the ones that aren't so. ;)
But since you brought up this theme: which sound characteristics are you looking for in a speaker and which aren't important for you?

regards

titian
 
Well it will be my first and last hifi show. I was surprised just how bad everything sounded and there was a tawdry run down feel about the whole thing.

I mainly went to listen to the kuzma airline but unfortunately my attempt to engage the distributor in conversation revealed he was some sort of arrogant retard who was only interested in getting me to read reviews and didnt respond well to my comments on hifi mags. The arm was also demmed in the definitive audio room but was broken so I couldnt hear it - which probably speaks volumes. A possible sale has been lost here which is a pity as the kuzma deck sounded quite good.

Stand out rooms at the show for me were walrus, the funk firm, pmc and loricraft audio. Nigel at LA is an old friend of a friend of mine and bent my ear for two hours on audio design, record cleaners and embarressing anecdotes about my mate. Time well spent I feel. Worst rooms were anything by sounds-of-music / metropolis, RPM and the naim room.

Other noteworthy products were the gamut loudspeaker, the phonosophie deck and dcs. The 47 labs deck looked interesting but there was something frankly not right about the sound. A number of speakers sounded "impressive" but ultimately wearing. Using a wider choice of music than was demmed would be revealing I think - especially in the room with the kodo drumming cd! The heeds sounded nice in a way but it wasnt hifi, and whatever they did the duevals appeared to do better.
 
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I went along on Friday and by yesterday an aweful lot had improved. Most of the above comments however just show how futile it is to try to assess any components at these kinds of events in hotel rooms.

It also shows the different subjective biases of listeners on the whole, and the error of claiming one sound was "better" than another. Kessler's seminars were both entertaining and enlightening for any of those who took the time.

The most enjoyable sounds for me were to be heard in the Living Voice room as might have been expected. What I did enjoy was the performance of KK's £3K system on smaller scale material. This comprised a Funk TT, Quad 99 CD, Prima Luna Two valve integrated and a pair of the new Stirling LS3/5a II's. Going from that to the dirge across the hallway (Quad or PMC or someone), speaking personally, showed just how important system building is to musical enjoyment.

It does help being familiar with a lot of the products being demonstrated at the weekend. This enables me to know that virtually everything I heard was working well below it's potential, so don't go making judgements other than aestetic ones.
 
Its still possible to pick out characteristics - even if not absolute or relative performance, up to a point. There was no excuse for the rockport system in such a large room. I agree the funk was very good however - that shone out regardless of the room. As a couple of other products did.
 
Disagree I'm afraid. If my impression of the Funk had been formed in their own room, I'd have thought it was very average, lacking in bottom end, and overpriced. In another system it sounded vastly better to my ears. This really is a perfect example of what I am talking about.

And what charcteristics could you be 100% certain you could pick out despite not knowing the associated components, the cabling, the room acoustic......?
 
I thought the funk sounded good in their room - at least it did by sunday. Its only 450 quid. Sure it will sound better in another system but the basic qualities shone through to my ears even in the funk room.

Cabling is irrelevent - vastly over rated. However I dont want to get onto that topic in this thread. Yes room acoustics are important as are associated components however experience shows that certain types of effects can be attributed to certain components. For instance I thought the phonosophie deck system sounded good but wasnt quite right - sounded a little too lean. I immediately suspected the cartridge from the way it sounded and I was correct - it was a VDH grasshopper, a very lean sounding cartridge. Sure you have to be careful but it is still possible to extract useful information.
 
The Funk that was playing was the Funk V and costs £800 FWIW.

For instance I thought the phonosophie deck system sounded good but wasnt quite right - sounded a little too lean. I immediately suspected the cartridge from the way it sounded and I was correct - it was a VDH grasshopper, a very lean sounding cartridge.
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So what would the Phonosophie sound like with a different cartridge? Or indeed any other component you did not like with different speakers or preamps, or phono stage, or cabling? The honest answer is that you have no idea, hence the futility of commenting.

Anyone who has had the unfortunate experience of m oving their system into an acoustically bad room will understand just how much the whole character of a setup can change.
 
Both funks were there not just the more expensive one.

That isnt the point. The point is that even with the vdh gh which I dont like it sounded really good - it was therefore worthy of audition with another cartridge at a later date. That was a worthwhile and valid conclusion. The performance of the deck shone through regardless of the rest of the setup. Just as the funk did.
 
Both Funks were there but only one was being used throughout the show. This was the V and cost £800 not the £400 you referred to earlier so just correcting you - sorry.

I'm glad you feel you were able to get some worthwhile experience with some new equipment.What were the electronics used?

I know you say you have heard the Grasshopper before, but it has to be said that AJ doesn't make artificially thin sounding cartridges on purpose and in the right system, the Grasshopper is pretty well peerless, as many high end dealers who stock it will tell you.

So if the electronics were chosen correctly, they would have been probably SETs or at least something like 300b's orEL34's. That's why I asked about the other components. In a correctly set up system, the VDH will not sound thin, so if the setup was correctly chosen, the thinness could well be caused elsewhere, even a characteristic of the TT itself.
 
Really? I thought it was the cheaper one according to the cards. I didnt check with Arthur.

No idea what the electronics were - just interested in the deck.

I have heard both the grasshopper and colibri on multiple occasions on multiple decks at multiple dealers. Each dem showed the same characteristics and I didnt really like them. Sure it wont sound "thin" if you use valves - but that is bailing out the basement as you are just adding lushness to counteract something that is missing further up the chain. "Thin" is not the right word - I would say "lean". At one dem I did hear the grasshopper through a modified WAD valve design. This amp doesnt have the colouration of many valve amps and the VDH stll sounded lean through it. I am sure it is a very fine cartridge for some people but not for me. I am interested in hearing the new condor though as it has a different balance and was developed on the brinkmann.

As we clearly have very different tastes and aims it is unlikely we will agree on this - as it is a matter of personal preference,
 
brizonbiovizier said:
Really? I thought it was the cheaper one according to the cards. I didnt check with Arthur.
,
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This should clear it up for you.


KICX0588.jpg


Taste has nothing to do with the ability to differentiate under show conditions really does it. I agree with your assessment of our differing tastes, it appears I prefer things on the more natural side whilst you like that studio type sound. But that wasn't what i was getting at. Never mind.
 
Haha no. I had no bag. I certainly wouldnt wear a roger walters t shirt. I might be best described as black leather clad maverick - possibly most often mistaken for someone of criminal tendencies.

Did you take the pic on the sunday sm? Well it doesnt really matter - it sounded good whichever it was.

You misunderstood my remark - taste refers to my not liking vdh under any conditions, not necessarily a show. The kind of sound I like is no sound. As close to real as possible - a straight wire with gain. To me valves and vdh just dont sound right. Your choice is equally valid however.
 
That wouldnt be me then - keep your imagination in check!

I had a long chat with les - I am sure you would have noticed how effusive he was had I been there ;-).

You know you love it when I stretch your technical capabilities and make you sweat a bit.
 
brizonbiovizier said:
As close to real as possible - a straight wire with gain. To me valves and vdh just dont sound right.
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Bizarre comment and sweeping generalisation I have to say. maybe you should try to listen to some of that kit, particularly id you are looking for as close to real as possible.

WM, I think I know who you mean. Had to be from a forum;-)

I took the picture on Friday but I visited the room on all three days and I do not recall seeing the basic model other than on static display - indeed I don't think it was equipped with a cartridge.
 
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