Need help with system improvements.

[Stereo Mic]

Zanash, can I make a suggestion? Ignore SM. For some reason, he seems to enjoy baiting you. If you don't reply, he'll hopefully get bored and move on to another forum.

Echoance,

new here aren't you?

Look at my post count.

Look at Merlin's post count (my former name before I asked it to be changed because I was pestered by idiots)

Add those up

I'm not going anywhere.

Now you can either listen to the "professional" cable/tweak/voodoo salesperson who cannot answer any practical questions and simply resorts to puerile insults (see above) when challenged, or you can save yourself a lot of money, avoid being conned and listen to Sideshow or Bottleneck. One way lies madness and divining rods, the other musical enlightenment and financial prosperity. You are at a crossroads.

 

[penance]

Echoance,


Look at Merlin's post count (my former name before I asked it to be changed because I was pestered by idiots)

I thought you knew it was 'cause i had feelings towards you.....

 

[DavidF]

. You are at a crossroads.

Nonsence Mike...there are always 101 diff ways of skinning a cat.

No one way is the right way.

That would be my opion anyway.

Why don't you leave the guy to make up his own mind?

 

[DavidF]

Sideshow or Bottleneck. One way lies madness and divining rods, the other musical enlightenment and financial prosperity. You are at a crossroads.

As if Ian and BN are the only ones to have something to contribute...... though they undoubtly have.


I trust this was written in jest.....

 

[Jimbo]

It would be great to get back to the original question asked from Echoance, instead of petty bickering and that was, Need help with system improvements.
Speakers can make a big influence so why not try a few demo's in your home and see what the dealers come up with. I have always thought the mid range imho in speakers carries a lot of information and this is where most of the boogie factor is. So perhaps go for some with detail in this area. Jim.

 

[zanash]

Just wondering what you (and others) found to be pluses and minuses of the stands, would be interesting, as I may well need to build a stand soon, and any thoughts about how the different stands affects things would be fab!

Cheers


[basically I thought iso feet would not make a blind bit of difference, result - quite supprised, hence the intrest in the actual equipment stand, if iso feet do something, the stand must contribute in some way.....]

its more of the same .....as you have heard the effect these feet have ...don't let anyone tell you stands etc don't make a difference. I'm certain you now understand the frustration many of us feel when some people say they don't....or can't, its just there not hearing it for whatever reason.

try the lack tables or the tnt flexy for low cost tasters ...if you have deep pockets the quadraspire stuff is very good ....and can be demonstrated to have a considerable impact on the sound .... as any one at heathrow 06 who heard there demo will know.

 

[Stereo Mic]

the quadraspire stuff is very good ....and can be demonstrated to have a considerable impact on the sound .... as any one at heathrow 06 who heard there demo will know.

:ffrc:

The perfect example of selling by suggestion. Guy looks really bored. Plays a bit of music. Transfers CD player to other rack whilst telling everyone what to expect, then starts dancing and conducting like a wind up toy monkey.

No f***ing difference whatsoever musically speaking - just a classic and comedic example of selling the audio experience.

That's not to say you won't hear differences with supports on some kit - you will. But they are totally unpredicable and the Quadraspire thing/demo is an offensive joke.

 

[JCL]

I must admit that it doesn't look like Quadraspire or the majority of other support manufacturers (Townsend & Finite Element excluded) have done any serious R&D on isolation etc ?

Not that I'm fussed, I enjoy building my own

 

[zanash]

SM...If you had not noticed this forum has been set up to allow people to offer advice... its up to the original poster to discard which information they feel is useless or inappropriate...not some third party with a history of naysaying, insults, and negative posts.

You can't have it both ways, either it works or it does not...you could say it works but on some kit the effect is minimal. But you can't say in one breath "No [expletive deleted] difference whatsoever" and then say "That's not to say you won't hear differences".

Heathrow show autumn '05 was the prancing sales person according to my photo's..and yes pretty off putting

 

[zanash]

I must admit that it doesn't look like Quadraspire or the majority of other support manufacturers (Townsend & Finite Element excluded) have done any serious R&D on isolation etc ?

Not that I'm fussed, I enjoy building my own

I don't feel that true .....certainly not with townsend don't forget the work they did on the rock and there metal cased speaker ...you can't just magic up the siesmic sink either .... though there not my cup of tea either.

 

[DavidF]

It would be great to get back to the original question asked from Echoance, instead of petty bickering

I dislike it as much any one here, beleive me

and that was, Need help with system improvements.
.

I wonder if echoance has had any further thoughts himself; suchas where is going to progress with this next?

 

[JCL]

I don't feel that true .....certainly not with townsend don't forget the work they did on the rock and there metal cased speaker ...you can't just magic up the siesmic sink either .... though there not my cup of tea either.

Sorry I meant Townsend and Finite Element have done some sort of R&D. I'm no so sure about Quadraspire though ? Those perspex stands look pretty dodgy eh ?

 

[zanash]

yep....both stands and table didn't look as if they are man enough for the job.

but it was evident at the demo I attended they really helped the small integrated amp. They moved the amp across three of there range of supports, and it was quite clear the percieved sound change as the support was swapped ..first up the range then back done. Just to be clear, the 12 other people in the room all heard the same effect..... must have been a mass delussion event!

 

[sideshowbob]

I've used a Quadraspire stand for the last few years. The hi-fi sits on a coffee table, the TV and DVD stuff on the Quadraspire, as I worked out long ago that putting the hifi on the Quadraspire made precisely no difference to how it sounded, but it was exactly the right height for the TV.

A wall shelf for a turntable is a good idea if you have a bouncy floor, otherwise stands make no difference IME. They are also mostly very badly made when considered purely as furniture, ugly, and extremely poor value for money. Quadraspire is cheap secondhand though, so if you like how it looks it's as good a choice as any. Just don't expect it to sound any different to a coffee table.

Old picture:

-- Ian

 

[Stereo Mic]

yep....both stands and table didn't look as if they are man ebut it was evident at the demo I attended they really helped the small integrated amp. They moved the amp across three of there range of supports, and it was quite clear the percieved sound change as the support was swapped ..first up the range then back done. Just to be clear, the 12 other people in the room all heard the same effect..... must have been a mass delussion event!

Sorry mass delusion. It's the best known scam of the UK show scene, you'll probably find plenty of discussion on it here with many visitors claiming they heard absolutely nothing - zip.

I'm all for giving advice, and Bottleneck has done just that - as I have commented on. I will just point out when he's getting dubious advice - that's my right Zanash - even though some pissed off forumites have left recently calling the place Zanashgain!!!!

Excellent post Ian

 

[zanash]

Thats not the table that was used ..so I can't comment on that unit .

Seems an expensive waste ...you could have sold it or returned it for a full refund....

that suggests it has some redeeming qualities.

Just a point about your set up ...nice kit by the way ... an se can't make out the arm or the isolation plinth ...the little cubes must be the phono stage ? A linn amp, majick ? and the cdp looks as if its a stable platter pioneer ? Not certain I recognize the speakers. Should sound pretty good though. Its clear to see from the pic ....

the speakers are sat on different surfaces one appears to be on a rug ? the other on carpet /carpet tiles neither spiked ?. The speakers siting ...one set in a corner the other in free air, one has a solid wall behind it, the other cassettes ? and shelves.

I know you have to use the room that available to you and it has to fit with other domestic activites .... but I can see why tweaky items appear to have no effect. There are so many other factor that may be having a greater influence on the sound than say a mere cable ..whose differences are always going to be relatively subtle. Solving some of these should improve the sound considerably imo ...if your bothered !

This set up obviously suit you and your listening regime ....and these comments and observations are of course just comments and observations.

 

[zanash]

Sorry mass delusion. It's the best known scam of the UK show scene, you'll probably find plenty of discussion on it here with many visitors claiming they heard absolutely nothing - zip.

I'm all for giving advice, and Bottleneck has done just that - as I have commented on. I will just point out when he's getting dubious advice - that's my right Zanash - even though some pissed off forumites have left recently calling the place Zanashgain!!!!

Excellent post Ian

Another of your facts ?

your entitled to have and express any opinion within the bounds of common decency [and the forum rules]...that does not allow you the right to bully insult demean and brow beat poster into your way of thinking.

Just because you disagree does not make you right ....I've offered advice not critisim if the advice is not taken thats fine doesn't bother me ....but it clearly bothers you and your cronies other wise you would not be making these offensive remarks.

 

[sideshowbob]

Seems an expensive waste ...you could have sold it or returned it for a full refund....

that suggests it has some redeeming qualities.

Actually no, it was secondhand, and as cheap as any reasonably looking TV stand would be, I think I paid about 200 quid for it.

Just a point about your set up ...nice kit by the way ... an se can't make out the arm or the isolation plinth

This is an old set-up, it's changed a lot. The arm is a Hadcock, the "isolation plinth" is no such thing, it's just a kitchen granite offcut with adjustable feet, there so I could get the TT precisely level.

...the little cubes must be the phono stage ?

One is a DAC, the other two are PSUs for the CD transport and DAC.

A linn amp, majick ?

Linn Kairn preamp. 47 Labs Gaincard power amp.

and the cdp looks as if its a stable platter pioneer ?

47 Labs Shigaraki transport, using a CEC mech.

Not certain I recognize the speakers.

DIY Jordans.

Still, you were close

the speakers are sat on different surfaces one appears to be on a rug ? the other on carpet /carpet tiles neither spiked ?.

They are spiked. The photo is from a PFM thread about when I built them, and was taken when I'd finished building them but before I'd spiked them or put them in their final positions. The fact that one is on a rug and one is on carpet makes no audible difference (tried it).

The speakers siting ...one set in a corner the other in free air, one has a solid wall behind it, the other cassettes ? and shelves.

There's about the same amount of space behind both. One has more damping behind it than the other, but both are a couple of feet forward of the rear wall, which minimises the effect. I have had various hi-fi set-ups in this room for over 15 years, in various positions, I know this room far better than you do.

I know you have to use the room that available to you and it has to fit with other domestic activites .... but I can see why tweaky items appear to have no effect.

Don't try and suggest I don't know how to make hi-fi sound good, trust me, I have set up at least as much hi-fi as you have and know precisely what I am doing. I got extremely good sound out of this system, and I get extremely good sound out of the current set-up in that room.

This is a second system, btw, the main system is Amazon Model 2/Morch DP6/47 Labs amps/Tannoy Lancasters. This is in a completely different room, in a different house, in a different part of the country, with a different construction (Victorian, high-ceilings, plasterboard, rather than concrete, low ceilings). Wanky wire and equipment supports make zero difference there, either.

I have also been involved in many cable and other tweaky tests over the years, in various different rooms, using a wide variety of different equipment, and it's obvious to me that the claims of significant differences are always exaggerated, or made up completely. I am speaking from experience when I express my opinion, it's the result of using my ears. Some believers seem incapable of accepting this, and resort to insinuation and sarcasm as their first response.

Solving some of these should improve the sound considerably imo ...if your bothered !

I really don't need any setup advice from you, but thanks anyway.

-- Ian

 

[Stereo Mic]

Another of your facts ?

Yes. It's a fact a large number of us did not hear any difference at all - even sighted! Statisitically that suggests no difference existed regardless of the fancy jig of the sales guy.

your entitled to have and express any opinion within the bounds of common decency [and the forum rules]...that does not allow you the right to bully insult demean and brow beat poster into your way of thinking.

If the poster is clearly recommending voodoo which can be proven in controlled conditions to not work as the poster suggests, I think I am within my rights to point out that the poster is misguided and that this is more than a mere opinion. This may upset the poster. Unfortunate

Just because you disagree does not make you right ....I've offered advice not critisim if the advice is not taken thats fine doesn't bother me ....but it clearly bothers you and your cronies other wise you would not be making these offensive remarks.

Yes it does. Until you prove your magic under controlled conditions I remain right. Sorry but there's no way round that. Unless you want me to arrange the test? And it's not offensive to point out the truth - only upsetting in the way yourng children can cry when daddy tells them Santa Claus doesn't exist.

As for your observations regarding Sideshow's setup, it just show what baseless lengths you will go to to try to discredit those with common sense. Maybe Zanash could come round with his divining rods Ian ?!

 

[ball-of-fire]

Thats not the table that was used ..so I can't comment on that unit .

Seems an expensive waste ...you could have sold it or returned it for a full refund....

that suggests it has some redeeming qualities.

Just a point about your set up ...nice kit by the way ... an se can't make out the arm or the isolation plinth ...the little cubes must be the phono stage ? A linn amp, majick ? and the cdp looks as if its a stable platter pioneer ? Not certain I recognize the speakers. Should sound pretty good though. Its clear to see from the pic ....

the speakers are sat on different surfaces one appears to be on a rug ? the other on carpet /carpet tiles neither spiked ?. The speakers siting ...one set in a corner the other in free air, one has a solid wall behind it, the other cassettes ? and shelves.

I know you have to use the room that available to you and it has to fit with other domestic activites .... but I can see why tweaky items appear to have no effect. There are so many other factor that may be having a greater influence on the sound than say a mere cable ..whose differences are always going to be relatively subtle. Solving some of these should improve the sound considerably imo ...if your bothered !

This set up obviously suit you and your listening regime ....and these comments and observations are of course just comments and observations.

WOW... You can assess and set up a system and a room just by looking at a picture of it... You must be like, a HiFi Jesus or something...

Or maybe Derek Acorah...