Need help with system improvements.

echo: first things first.

moving gear around in your room is free, and getting the best out of the gear in the room makes more sense than replacing good gear that is badly positioned.

a set of floor standers takes more careful positioning than a stand mount, they cover more range, likely are louder and bass loading/reflections becomes more of an issue.

A bit of boom, overhang in the lower registers and a change in balance of the frequency range can easily rob your system of it's previous pace and cohesiveness.

without seeing and better, hearing the room, it's impossible to say what changes can be made. but getting the best from speakers in a space is pretty much just math.


any chnace of a plan of the room? or dimensions with an indication of speaker placement. then we can take it from there.

the best gear in the world badly placed can sound much worse than the most prosaic gear placed with great consideration.
 
bottleneck said:
I would say SM's system (which I heard last night) achieves all of this with crocodile clips and maplins cables, but I don't want to inflame! ;)
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I would guess SM's kit is pretty decent stuff then, due to my own way of thinking. When I was playing with my kit / cables I was thinking/finding that my kit was pumping out the basic sounds, and all the smaller details were produced but in a far weeker state.

Employing a decent cable that let these week signals through let the music flow, however, thinking that if the kit was decent enough to pump out strong full signals across the detail range maybe not so a decent a cable would be required......:confused:

Hope above is clearer than mud:D
Come to that, below also:)


I also think that power/IC/speaker cable IME, will alter the sound but will alter the sound similar to that which is already there, for example and Arcam sound will become more or less an Arcam sound, a Rega sound will become more or less a Rega sound.

Have picked up the pace on the Arcam, but nowhere near the Rega, and slowed the pace on the rega but nowhere near the Arcam, just nice little tweeks to the sound cables IME :)
 
The room has to be the cuprit. Perhaps you have a sonically dead room where the sound is being soaked up before you get the avantage, i dont know. Whats on the walls, floor and furnishings. What size room and shape. Jim.
 
Deaf Cat said:
Cheers :)

Just had a quick flick, wow they do seem to vary a tad, if I'm not mistaken the Phase 4 Mana reminds me of a pic of your diy stand with various bed materials and bearing iso's in another thread:D

Cool stuff will have a more indepth read, :)
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Not terribly surprising ......it was all a bit "mana" inspired!

Good clean fun!




:band:






:D
 
DavidF said:
Not terribly surprising ......it was all a bit "mana" inspired!
:D
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:eek::eek::eek: just read deeper and found some pics of mana owners rooms, are they mad!! - can't really comment;) have not tried it....yet (diy version me thinks TNT maybe with some mods:D)

I thought changing IC's was madness a few years ago and now I'm 1/2 way through sorting mains cables:D

Normal is madness of the masses a!
 
Effem has just sold this cable.

"Nite II" a cable made by a Canadian company called Virtual Dynamics

for a very reasonable 250 quid second hand. I reckon that it would have sorted all your problems out It is a very good cable.
 
Deaf Cat said:
:eek::eek::eek: just read deeper and found some pics of mana owners rooms, are they mad!!
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A short answer might be yes.

I managed to get one former Mana user to experiment. I pointed out that the differences he heard adding levels were due to his loudspeakers moving in and out of acoustic nodes and that this affected the frequency response. It had nothing to do with the voodoo preached by Mana and it's disciples.

All credit to him, he listened, built a simple stand the same height, and low and behold was able to sell off all of his Mana before letting everyone know that it wasn't doing what it claimed.

Excellent result.
 
Stereo Mic said:
A short answer might be yes.

I managed to get one former Mana user to experiment. I pointed out that the differences he heard adding levels were due to his loudspeakers moving in and out of acoustic nodes and that this affected the frequency response. It had nothing to do with the voodoo preached by Mana and it's disciples.

All credit to him, he listened, built a simple stand the same height, and low and behold was able to sell off all of his Mana before letting everyone know that it wasn't doing what it claimed.

Excellent result.
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Hmmm,

I guess adding sound stages under the equipment rack is pointless also. And that all those reviews in the early 90's and all the people who decided to use Mana were full of it and duped?

"Voodoo preached by Mana and it's disciples" What this all about?
 
Satusbulbas,

I thought there weren't any Mana users on ZG given that the Mana owner refers to this place as ZeroBrain.

Try PM'ing Fox on PF to find out more - but all Mana is is a symathetic resonator at certain frequencies which gave a particularly enticing sound with the LP12.

The reviews of the early '90's were getting on for 20 years ago - the reviews since - like the one on HiFi Choice in the late nineties for instance, were far less favourable and explained exactly what I did in the above post.

As a support it resonates, so it works with some kit and not with others - as with all racks. The difference with Mana is that the effect is so pronounced that most people do hear it's effect with most kit. The result can of course be utterly horrible.

The genius of Mana was to make people believe that adding additional levels improved things further - utter tosh I'm afraid - as Fox will happily confirm if you ask about his experiments.

The Phase concept of Mana is BS Sast - Mana was a religion rather than an upgrade - it simply added colouration as the press finally pointed out. Sorry if that offends.
 
Stereo Mic said:
I pointed out that the differences he heard adding levels were due to his loudspeakers moving in and out of acoustic nodes and that this affected the frequency response.
Click to expand...

Ah now there's an area I know nothing about:(

Will learn about that in due course I suspect:D
 
Stereo Mic said:
Satusbulbas,

I thought there weren't any Mana users on ZG given that the Mana owner refers to this place as ZeroBrain.

Try PM'ing Fox on PF to find out more - but all Mana is is a symathetic resonator at certain frequencies which gave a particularly enticing sound with the LP12.

The reviews of the early '90's were getting on for 20 years ago - the reviews since - like the one on HiFi Choice in the late nineties for instance, were far less favourable and explained exactly what I did in the above post.

As a support it resonates, so it works with some kit and not with others - as with all racks. The difference with Mana is that the effect is so pronounced that most people do hear it's effect with most kit. The result can of course be utterly horrible.

The genius of Mana was to make people believe that adding additional levels improved things further - utter tosh I'm afraid - as Fox will happily confirm if you ask about his experiments.

The Phase concept of Mana is BS Sast - Mana was a religion rather than an upgrade - it simply added colouration as the press finally pointed out. Sorry if that offends.
Click to expand...

Not offended at all Mic,

I wouldn't mind reading the later HiFi Choice Review though, any links?

I myself have had no problems with Mana, and have been quite happy using Mana for some number of years myself. I have a custom rack for US width kit, a two tier table and a Reference table, though I did down grade and sell one of my Reference tables to someone in Sweden, or Denmark, or some place like that a while back.

It works well I feel with some of my kit, though I felt it was not suited to Valve Pre amps and the Gyro ended up with a little more surface noise?

To be honest some of the kit I used to have on Mana, IE the system on the Apollo rack, seems less dynamic and impressive without Mana?

As for Mana users on ZG, I am sure I am not alone. As for how members from each forum refer to other forums, thats there choice. Shame all that tarring with brushes.

:)
 
Deaf Cat said:
Ah now there's an area I know nothing about:(

Will learn about that in due course I suspect:D
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I totally agree with Mikes observation that the relationship between speakers and listener is (imo) worth paying a lot of attention to.

What iVE found (breifly)

keep loads of distance between spaeakers! there is ( a distance of ) 13 feet (as much as my room allows :)) between mine. They were closer; when Pete suggested moving them apart....the diff were jaw dropping!

Keep the spaeakers out of corners! (as muchas you can)

Try to form an equilaterla triangle between speakers and you.

I find this quite critical........+ getting equal distances between you and the speakers is also worth paying attention to.....

( how your speakers are sited on the floor is an entiry diff subject ;) and one unto itself ;) )

I can give you a few ideas if you'd like.....
expect you know all this stuff already though........





cheers



David
 
sastusbulbas said:
As for Mana users on ZG, I am sure I am not alone. As for how members from each forum refer to other forums, thats there choice. Shame all that tarring with brushes.

:)
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If its mana amnesty day I need to own up - I have mana turntable table I bought it second hand many years ago for £45 - It had been tweeked and had a thick marble top with corky bits stuck below not a bit of glass in sight.

Currently it is used as a coffee table or sometimes for the kids Xbox because Im in a woody phase.

Andy
 
sastusbulbas said:
Not offended at all Mic,
:)
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That's a relief!

I wouldn't mind reading the later HiFi Choice Review though, any links?
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Sadly they got rid of their review links some time ago. It was on a comparative test along with a Townsend IIRC and some other supports like the big mass loaded one available in those days. It was in 1999 I think.

Thanks for your comments about your Mana. Yes it will make some things sound more dynamic and as you've discovered, that can be a disadvantage with some kit/systems. I had some many years ago now.

Are they still in business?
 
I found some stuff - Id forgotten I do remember going to a show once heathrow or Bristol I guess there mana were with a massive multi rack naim system on a rack going at full blast. Being polite id say it didnt float my boat so I never was a potential customer.

View attachment 1017

http://www.mana.co.uk/

Funny to read it all again though.

Andy
 
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