Of significant interest .....

[Stereo Mic]

I don't think anyone is telling anyone not to play with cables. It's a free world

Just that there's a strong possibility that the improvements perceived are the result of an active imagination and good marketing.

If you happily accept that it could all be in your head but you are happy anyway, then no one would have a problem with that I would have thought.

The one camp can pull up huge amounts of data to support that opinion - the other camp simply argues that all data is flawed. Your analogy is misleading as from what I can see, only one camp relies on a faith based argument - and we al know how seriously people take having their faith questioned or ridiculed.

 

[la toilette]

Yes, and I agree with your comments about marketing and personal perception, but that applies to most of the retail trade to some extent surely. But yes, I do agree that unsubstantiated pseudo-scientific claims shouldn't really be allowed and should definitely be reined in. But there seems to be a bit of over-analysis of peoples comments in these threads, casual remarks or opinions are pounced upon and hacked to pieces (might be being a bit dramatic here but hey...). For instance, my analogy wasn't supposed to be perfect fit, but you got the gist, and that's the important bit!

 

[Dev]

I bet the majority of members here do actually sit in the middle ground but are reluctant to air their own opinions because the caustic nature of so many posts on bloody cables.

We could start a poll.

 

[RobHolt]

Why not use tone controls?

I now do just that when the need arises

However, with any decent cable cross section used in the lengths commonly in use in homes the difference caused by variation in 'R' due to changing from copper to silver will be inaudible.

 

[DavidF]

Yes, and I agree with your comments about marketing

I don't think I do.

I don't believe I take any notice of it.

and personal perception,

This is a tricky one.

Like I said before I just have to be objective in assessments....you know when you've made a step forward, just as you know when youve made retrograde step (and they happen, beleive me!)

but that applies to most of the retail trade to some extent surely.

...isn't this a point?

The perseived benefits of any new bit of kit (amp/cd player etc) could be imagination if it comes to that....backed up by technical figures or not.

But yes, I do agree that unsubstantiated pseudo-scientific claims shouldn't really be allowed and should definitely be reined in.
!

Its possible

 

[Czechchris]

in new electronica thread

The CD sounds superb to my jaded ears.

in new electronica thread

Anyway, recommended to aging dance and dub fans everywhere.

Explains perhaps why he has the view on cables he has? Ears jaded and subject to the ravages of age?

 

[Stereo Mic]

Do you have anything useful to say, or did you just chip in with pathetic insults because your mind is otherwise vacant?

 

[sq225917]

pot kettle black?

 

[JCL]

I bet the majority of members here do actually sit in the middle ground but are reluctant to air their own opinions because the caustic nature of so many posts on bloody cables.

I don't post much on cable threads because I think at times I've heard a difference in cables. However, if I was blind A-B tested on the differences I know I wouldn't get close to being correct. If I could I'd set up a unbiased A-B then I could come on here and tell Mic that I'm not a mug for spending £500 on cables.

 

[Stereo Mic]

pot kettle black?

Not in the slightest. Personal insults have been banned from here for some time - read the AUP and I'm sure you remember the last person banned. If I were guilty I would have been gone simple as that. Sadly some take the truth as an insult but fortunately the mods realise that's hardly my fault.

 

[Stereo Mic]

I don't post much on cable threads because I think at times I've heard a difference in cables. However, if I was blind A-B tested on the differences I know I wouldn't get close to being correct. If I could I'd set up a unbiased A-B then I could come on here and tell Mic that I'm not a mug for spending £500 on cables.

Do it.

I'll even help you. I thought I reliably heard significant cable differences. I know I don't now. It's a very revealing test.

 

[zanash]

Actually it's more like: those that are imagining things are trying to persuade those that know the truth that what they're imagining is real, because they've got a lot of money at stake.

who are you referring to? My speakers are hooked up with freebie bell wire cables.

Michael.

good for you !

try 15amp twin and earth ....then tell us if theres a difference.

 

[DavidF]

I don't post much on cable threads because I think at times I've heard a difference in cables. However, if I was blind A-B tested on the differences I know I wouldn't get close to being correct. If I could I'd set up a unbiased A-B then I could come on here and tell Mic that I'm not a mug for spending £500 on cables.

Might I observe.....

I think your making this sound like an olympic sport.....IMO it needn't be.

AS soem one said most retailers ( and certainly pete /zanash) are willing to lend cables on a trial basis so that you don't have to shell out your dough on spec.

If you like what they do..........great!

By all means put the origional ones back on to prove your point.

 

[cooky1257]

What I find amusing is the hypocracy.
To this reader at least I've read just as much draw jopping BS spoken about the sound of high end turntables and their plinths or transparency of passive preamp A vs B or what have you than any cable evangelist is guilty of spouting.
There comes a point in audio where subtle differences and their audibility is so subjective and personal as to be irrelevant when expressed as an opinion-the notion of 'transparency' is a good one-at what point do you know? How can you be sure you're not listening to the preamps in the recording chain and can go no further?-whats your reference etc etc?-Are you sure you're not imagining it?-I mean a few pieces of poxy wire fooled you so how about that £2k pre?.
My point is that audio is so riddled with opportunities to debunk and question someones choices and 'opinions' about what they think they hear as to place both camps on very shakey ground-time for both sides to give it a rest IMHO.
Oh and while I'm at it, In spite of the forum rules there's personal sniping and bullying going on here so while people may be following the letter they are ignoring the spirit-its like a Comp playground on here "there's such and such lets all take the piss out of his trainers"time people grew up.

 

[Stereo Mic]

I'd tend to agree. The rare jaw dropping differences you tend to get these days are generally speaker and room related and it's remarkable how many people compromise in these areas, yet get ridiculously excited about a length of copper or an HDF platform.

Differences in equipment that measures identically will of course be imaginary too - it's not just cables. But some electronics can be shown to measure quite differently within the audible spectrum - few if an cables can.

 

[zanash]

What I find amusing is the hypocracy.
To this reader at least I've read just as much draw jopping BS spoken about the sound of high end turntables and their plinths or transparency of passive preamp A vs B or what have you than any cable evangelist is guilty of spouting.
There comes a point in audio where subtle differences and their audibility is so subjective and personal as to be irrelevant when expressed as an opinion-the notion of 'transparency' is a good one-at what point do you know? How can you be sure you're not listening to the preamps in the recording chain and can go no further?-whats your reference etc etc?-Are you sure you're not imagining it?-I mean a few pieces of poxy wire fooled you so how about that £2k pre?.
My point is that audio is so riddled with opportunities to debunk and question someones choices and 'opinions' about what they think they hear as to place both camps on very shakey ground-time for both sides to give it a rest IMHO.
Oh and while I'm at it, In spite of the forum rules there's personal sniping and bullying going on here so while people may be following the letter they are ignoring the spirit-its like a Comp playground on here "there's such and such lets all take the piss out of his trainers"time people grew up.

well said ........

use your own ears and own judgment, rather than being swayed by someone who has an obvious axe to grind...who will says one thing and then does another.

Theres nothing more subjective than hifi and its down to a personal choice or preference what you buy or not .....and not upto a net bully to ram down peoples throats their distorted ideals.

do we need a hifi nanny to tell us what we should believe, think or hear or even listen to ?

I think not...

 

[DavidF]

I'd tend to agree. The rare jaw dropping differences you tend to get these days are generally speaker and room related and it's remarkable how many people compromise in these areas, yet get ridiculously excited about a length of copper or an HDF platform.

Differences in equipment that measures identically will of course be imaginary too - it's not just cables. But some electronics can be shown to measure quite differently within the audible spectrum - few if an cables can.

I don't beleive any on is getting "ridiculously excited".....I have been impressed by the benfits of both (highly at times).

As has been noted htis arguement has gone round in circles for long enough....

sq put it so concisely, I trust he won't mind me refering to his post


"reviewing cablesis the most pointless task in the world, unless everyone has identical setups, the reviews and entirely meaningless.

you need to hear them for yourself.

i don't think Peter ever claimed his cables sounded different to those with 'identical' LCR, just that they sound different to 'some' cables and some people might prefer the sound.


here's his new tagline, "they might sound different and you might prefer it more than more expensive brand name cables.......""

 

[Stereo Mic]

well said ........

use your own ears and own judgment, rather than being swayed by someone who has an obvious axe to grind...who will says one thing and then does another.

Theres nothing more subjective than hifi and its down to a personal choice or preference what you buy or not .....and not upto a net bully to ram down peoples throats their distorted ideals.

do we need a hifi nanny to tell us what we should believe, think or hear or even listen to ?

I think not...

I love the way you say " Well said" then proceed to behave like a child in a playground - just as Cooky suggested. Class.

BTW. I'm all for letting my ears decide, it's just you keep wriggling and squirming when anyone suggests you do just that and we report the findings.

You use your eyes to listen. That's a fact whether you like it or not. The sad thing is you still fail to accept it. I can only assume it's because of your vested interest in the sale of spurious items of questionable value.

You refuse to test the audible effects of cables, refuse to provide others with examples of your "wares" to do just that. Yet you have the temerity to suggest others are deaf despite the fact that they are the only ones actually using their ears. In short, you are a very confused individual.

 

[RobHolt]

well said ........

use your own ears and own judgment, rather than being swayed by someone who has an obvious axe to grind...who will says one thing and then does another.

As opposed to a cable salesman with a cash register to look after?

Come off it Pete.

 

[Dom_]

Yet you have the temerity to suggest others are deaf despite the fact that they are the only ones actually using their ears. In short, you are a very confused individual.

I think you will find you are doing exactly the same thing in reverse.

I don't like posting on cable threads as i see little point. People believe what they believe. People should not insult others and bring their reputations into dispute.
This is a discussion on cables not on the people posting.

You say he acts

like a child in a playground

yet you seem to be doing exactly this. Just because you use big words and well thought out sentences does not make you any less childish.