Principles

[wadia-miester]

Well nick, as you know I shall be hosting a Coherent open session on that day. However I really would like to listen before you go what about Sunday? I have some speakers to drop off, though it won't be difficult to make a detour.

 

[Tenson]

I can't make it this weekend, playing in a band for one…

Tenson can come early to help me tweak the crossovers

Thank you

Using gated measurements won't make much difference to the bass, but it could help you tweak the mid and high frequencies on the DEQ.

 

[Tenson]

Well nick, as you know I shall be hosting a Coherent open session on that day. However I really would like to listen before you go what about Sunday? I have some speakers to drop off, though it won't be difficult to make a detour.

Why so urgent all of a sudden?

and what assumption were you referring to before?

 

[ShinOBIWAN]

I merely wish to hear the nick system as he discribes it nothing more. I'm very obviously missing the boat on a big scale.
I wish to be educated as I have a very open mind.
Now Simon is making assumptions, I've been intreaged by nick's ramblings ever since the day he first posted.
So its time I found out for myself just how complete his package is.
Shin,
I do get frequent your neck of the woods from time to time I'm sure we can arrange a mutually convient date.
Can you just run throught the rest of your system for me please

On the 2ch audio side of things

Well the speakers you've already seen.

The rest is HTPC/Media Server with bit perfect playback -> Overkill modded DEQX with I2S and multibit parallel's feeding 4x AKSA Lifeforce 55 and 2x AKSA Lifeforce 100.

Cables are Qed Genesis for the speakers and the interconnects are £5 Proel XLR's I don't place much weight in cables so you'll find nothing interesting there.

Its all geared toward low distortion and very good imaging and soundstage. I hope you'll find that its musical too, the performance is certainly tangible on the right recordings, its also quite visceral on high energy music, certainly not boring and that should be improved further...

...The system sounds great as it is but if your willing to hold out a little longer I'll have the subs I briefly discussed in the 'Thorsten' thread finished up for some real scale and bite to the system, at the minute its only playing flat down to 50hz but that was by design and I always intended for a sort of 3.5way setup.

Don't feel the need to hold out for the subs though, would be nice to hear the system complete but the system stands well without. So if you know you'll be in the area sooner then still come up and have listen, do you want me to PM my telephone no and address?

 

[RobHolt]

Tony, I've heard Nick's system and enjoyed it a lot, especially with the Brinkman TT spinning the discs.

If you are in London on Sunday and want to hear some Japanese DD, tubes and horns send me a PM - happy to oblige

 

[Richard Dunn]

Will you all stop hi-jacking this thread and go and arrange your dates somewhere else please.

Richard

 

[ShinOBIWAN]

Shin, you have a point about horn loaded speakers and high energy music - after all, I bet you've never been to a gig or club and seen something as antiquated as a horn or compression driver have you.

Indeed it's merely an urban myth that the truly high end studios use large format monitors comprising paper cones and compression drivers in preference to cones and domes.


Do carry on.

Do you have an agenda to slur the meaning of folks posts to help you get your own agend.. point across?

I said:

These things can general destroy a small horn setup.

I didn't say multi compression or large format horn setups. I also don't believe they use tubes at gigs or studios do they? Oh wait it helped you get your 'point' across. I also didn't apply those terms to every small horn setup.

I was asking murray if his did the goods because my limited experience with the smaller types wasn't pleasant with that type of music, I'm not making sweeping statements as you would have people believe.

I think you need to stop looking for reasons to argue and go get laid or something. You clearly need some kind of release.

Now what I can't understand is that having spent a perfectly good friday evening sat in front of your PC's pontificating about the individual's perception of soundwaves and their reproduction, you all start jumping up and down like excited schoolchildren at the thought of someone actually coming over to hear your systems. This despite the fact that you have already proved that their opinion is of zero use to you (unless we are talking ego and not hifi)

It doesn't sound like your a people person. I'm more interested in meeting others interested in this hobby of ours and discussing something we enjoy and take seriously as well as taking a look at different kit, implementation and the end result. Forums and real face to face meetings are very different and much more civilized and enjoyable in my experience.

 

[ShinOBIWAN]

What! you don't listen to them? so what do you make them for?

Richard

I find that they make great paper weights.

 

[Stereo Mic]

I was asking murray if his did the goods because my limited experience with the smaller types wasn't pleasant with that type of music, I'm not making sweeping statements as you would have people believe.

Are you familiar with the history of Vitavox? I was under the impression Murray was using some S2's in 4 cell horns. Might be worth a Google if I'm right.

I think you need to stop looking for reasons to argue and go get laid or something. You clearly need some kind of release.

I'm not the one huddled in front of a PC discussing step responses on a friday evening am I?

It doesn't sound like your a people person. I'm more interested in meeting others interested in this hobby of ours and discussing something we enjoy and take seriously as well as taking a look at different kit, implementation and the end result. Forums and real face to face meetings are very different and much more civilized and enjoyable in my experience.

I'm more interested in listening to music with my friends these days, many of whom you will find here and on other boards. I guess after so many years and so many debates on forums, I'm far less interested in the means of reproduction these days, so do excuse the cynicism.

 

[RobHolt]

Will you all stop hi-jacking this thread and go and arrange your dates somewhere else please.

Richard

:MILD:

Chill Ricardo

 

[ShinOBIWAN]

Are you familiar with the history of Vitavox? I was under the impression Murray was using some S2's in 4 cell horns. Might be worth a Google if I'm right.

Sweet speakers. Didn't know that was what he owned. I imagined something like an audiophile horns.

I'm not the one huddled in front of a PC discussing step responses on a friday evening am I?

Hardly huddled whilst sat on the recliner looking at the PJ screen and listening to tunes, pretty comfortable thanks.

You must be older than I thought, there's been no mention of step response this evening. And also check out where you are right now on a Friday evening, guess your definitely the bigger party animal

I'm more interested in listening to music with my friends these days, many of whom you will find here and on other boards. I guess after so many years and so many debates on forums, I'm far less interested in the means of reproduction these days, so do excuse the cynicism.

We'll go hang with your 'mates', you've got nothing else to learn from us nor we from you.

Jeez what a stuckup mong.

 

[wadia-miester]

Interesting Shin, Dereks (overkill Audios') modded deq's may I believe been 'worked on' by some one else possibly? Trichord????
Do you not feel that digital x/overs whilst producing exceptional imaging and staging, detract from the musical expression, intimacy, tonality and realistic flow of the music whilst giving that mechanical contrived sound ie manipulated feeling (genuine question, not a dig?)
Having heard those xovers with the ovations? (and the passives versions, which to me were far more engauging and real to me)
Tonality and timbre seems to elude these types of sets ups for me. Are are you not also planning to use the new class 'd' designs soon?. personally I find the hypex stuff, powerful and in control, but lacking that soul and passion in the performance? although I feel the 180 is by far the best musically, though the 400 being the best trade off 700 just full of bluster and wow, nothing more imo your thoughts here Shin.
Rob very kind invite sir, I would like to take you up on your kind offer. I may even bring a glowing bottle box along with me Rob.
I'm not anti vinyl at all, some recording are meant to be on Vinyl period. I have'll no dobt that nicks system is enjoyable, I merely wish to get view things from his direction.

 

[Stereo Mic]

Jeez what a stuckup mong.

Intelligent aren't you.

Having read your views and opinions in this thread, you are right - I clearly have nothing to learn from you. You on the other hand, strike me as being at the beginning of a long journey and having the intelligence to recognise that fact may well make the route shorter.

I did wonder when you had clearly spent more attention on the lifestyle aspects of your DIY boxes than on proper crossover design. A bit like sticking a full on Halfords body kit on a Focus. you haven't done that as well have you?

Anyway do carry on - most entertaining.

 

[Stereo Mic]

Do you not feel that digital x/overs whilst producing exceptional imaging and staging, detract from the musical expression, intimacy, tonality and realistic flow of the music whilst giving that mechanical contrived sound ie manipulated feeling

Tony, a clue. What are the common concerns with a brick wall filter as used for instance on early CD players?

 

[ShinOBIWAN]

Interesting Shin, Dereks (overkill Audios') modded deq's may I believe been 'worked on' by some one else possibly? namely Trichord????

No, the modding is done by Kim, Paul and the team over at DEQX in Australia, there's specific changes to the digital input/out and the DA stages are moved outboard. Maybe other 3rd party work but it wasn't discussed and I doubt it to be honest.

You know Derek then? Extremely nice bloke and makes some very nice looking boxes, unfortunately I haven't heard them. Simon will also like them I suspect.

Do you not feel that digital x/overs whilst producing exceptional imaging and staging, detract from the musical expression, intimacy, tonality and realistic flow of the music whilst giving that mechanical contrived sound ie manipulated feeling (genuine question, not a dig?)

I personally don't feel that at all, its engaging but not in overtly over the top manner that I'd attribute to what I've built before or heard at shows and demo's. I'd say unforced, dynamic, cohesive and formed were the words I used if asked to describe the music, overall its natural.

If you drop in you can give me your own thoughts and see if its different to system you've heard before that implement this sort of setup. I also don't mind if you dislike it

The only other DEQX based setup I've heard is the NHT sub sat system and that seemed to display more of what your saying, polite would be the word. A nice background music system but not 'live' enough for my liking.

People talk of the ATC's as rough sounding maybe the DEQX was just what they needed

Having heard those xovers with the ovations? (and the passives versions, which to me were far more engauging and real)
Tonality and timbre seems to elude these types of sets ups for me. Are are you not also planning to use the new class 'd' designs soon?. personally I find the hypex stuff, powerful and in control, but lacking that soul and passion in the performance? although I feel the 180 is by far the best musically, though the 400 being the best trade off? 700 just full of bluster and wow, nothing more imo your thoughts here Shin.

I was going for the new NewClass D NCD1 modules but Lars(the designer and company boss) has put the release date back even further because of supply problems. I was getting impatient, so I've gone with a designer whom I've had good experiences with before - Hugh Dean. I've become quite good email chums with him despite selling my old AKSA 55N+ some months ago now, he mentioned he was releasing a limited availability special edition of the 55N+ called the Lifeforce and I got a chance to try it(at a price of course) so took it. Very simple but clever design, compact signal paths and chocked full of audio spec'd components.

The AKSA seems to be held in high esteem by the musicality crowd and compliments the system very well I think.

Take a look:

http://www.aksaonline.com/products_2_3.html

I'm using a pair of 55w modules for the tweeter and mid and the bass has the 100w version. I initially had reservation as to whether they had the chock to wind the drivers up but that thought soon dissappeared a few seconds after playing them.

I've only had them playing for around 50 hours so they're still running in at present.

 

[ShinOBIWAN]

Intelligent aren't you.

I'm bright enough to know I've got issues with folks that seem to think they know best, and keep reminding you of that, since they've tried something that didn't work out for them and then that automatically means that they can put a blanket over all system with a vaguely similar implementions and expect the owners to agree with them.

Having read your views and opinions in this thread, you are right - I clearly have nothing to learn from you. You on the other hand, strike me as being at the beginning of a long journey and having the intelligence to recognise that fact may well make the route shorter.

Am I on a long journey because my system, ideals and opinions aren't where yours are right now? Is that how you judge others - by your own views and journey? It sound arrogant and stuckup to me. Realise that you aren't the only one 'into' hifi and your methods and opinions on how this journey should progress and ultimately end means little to anyone and neither do mine. Perhaps if you tried a more constructive approach to critisicm it would be met with similar respect.

Its clear that I'm passionate about my system and very much enjoy it. As far as I'm concerned if it gets better than this then great, I'll be happy to be on that journey. To say I'm at the start is a little rich considering I've covered ground that others don't even consider - making their own stuff tailored to their needs.

Read back your posts and then consider how it looks to others looking on. Bitter would be the best word for it, quite why I'm not sure.

I did wonder when you had clearly spent more attention on the lifestyle aspects of your DIY boxes than on proper crossover design. A bit like sticking a full on Halfords body kit on a Focus. you haven't done that as well have you?

I was wondering when you'd turn to insulting the system rather than the person, cheap shot. Its your style though. I have to laugh at your 'proper' crossover design thing, you obviously don't know who or what I'm about and if you don't care then why are you concerning yourself with the specifics? Did it make you feel better telling me that or are you hungry for more?

So far I've seen absolutely zero that would qualify you to make judgement on xover design. If your talking about design competancy on a technical level then consider the step response I posted. I'm sure many folks into accuracy would aspire to such a measurement. And you haven't heard the system so if your passing judgement on the sound then you just got egg on your face, oh wait! What didn't work for you obviously doesn't work for everyone else.

 

[Dev]

Simon, there is nothing wrong with your understanding of basic electronics and thank the lord that your thinking has not become clouded by your head being stuffed full by the rantings of the more extreme subjectivists.

Many on here wouldn't know an LM317 from a tin of beans - don't be patronised. As for your work on acoustics, crossovers and room treatments your work is light years ahead of many here.

I think it was Markus who said something like "You are wise beyond your years" about Simon. I tend to agree with him.

 

[anon_bb]

Simon is astonishingly mature for his age and picks up things lightening fast - more than once I have found myself on the back foot so to speak and very few people can do that.

The deq should be fine in the dsp digital only domain.

I have started a thread here for the next bake off.

https://www.audio-forums.com/as-rediect/showthread.php?p=179771#post179771

 

[Stereo Mic]

since they've tried something that didn't work out for them and then that automatically means that they can put a blanket over all system with a vaguely similar implementions and expect the owners to agree with them.

Much like your attitude with Bub and ATC's then...

Let's remember, I didn't start the arrogant insults here.

With regards to the DEQX crossover, do you have an impulse response of the low pass taken using just the crossover frequency and nothing else?

 

[wadia-miester]

Shin,
Have heard the DEQX in a couple of applications, I believe some of the Apogee boys quite like them (Hence the Oz connection).
Derek (who is a nice chap and I've had dealings with) had a pair x/overs modifed by Graham Folwer back in 05 (Trichord). I did spot the special psu that was made for it in a what looks like a delphini box? on one of the websites last nite
I felt Derek speakers better suited valve amplication and TT's.
Not the sound I personally look for, but good none the less.
(Not a fan of the manger driver arrays you see, yes dynamic and fast, clan and open buy just not 'right' although it has a following especialy with the asr crowd). Though better than the zero box 9's I've owned.
Well a I've yet to hear any digital x/over sound good to my ears, and in one form or another been engauged with them for over 14 years, technology has moved on for sure, but the for us the problem still remains mechanical sound.
I heard (recently) one of the lesser models being honest it sounded none shabby so a good base to which to work from (I would take them over the hypex modules for sure).
It would be nice to hear how you feel you have managed to over come this issue Shin.