RA - interesting change of tack?

Originally posted by merlin
Joel, I really don't understand why anyone would want to enter into discussions regarding items they do not beleive in unless with a view to stirring up a hornets nest.

So I would agree with you that debating the main question of whether cables make a difference is unlikely to lead to harmonious exchanges.

On the other hand, it would seem unnesseccary for a sceptic to enter a discussion regarding say Siltech cables, when they simply do not beleive in the subject matter, unless of course they have direct experience of the product in question.

That seems reasonable
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That was the point I tried (and failed) to make if we say they made a difference then we are giving an honest view that may help somone try it for themselves, if they don't then hear the same then fine nothing lost, If you want to enter the discussion and say they haven't worked for you, thats fine too as it gives abalanced view, what i object to is those non beleivers who pour scorn and ridicule and theen try and disprove our observations with facts and figures, WHY? FWIW all of the posters in this thread are not the type of non beleivers i was refering to.

I don't want a believers forum I want a well balanced forum thats fun to be part of and there is nothing wrong with a bit of leg pulling, but attacks on peoples beleifs and integrity can only lead to pointless arguments.
 
Some really good points by Joel and merlin , maybe a few new rules along those lines wouldn,t go amiss?

On the setting up of a seperate forum
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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I can appreciate how your feeling , but I don,t like the "if you don,t like it then F*** orf " approach .
This forum needs opposing beliefs otherwise it will end up a very stale and boring place to visit .
If you don,t think a forum member is being remotely constructive , or just plain argumentetive , then just ban them .
Please don,t tar everyone who believes in an opposing theory with the same brush .
 
Originally posted by merlin

On the other hand, it would seem unnesseccary for a sceptic to enter a discussion regarding say Siltech cables, when they simply do not beleive in the subject matter, unless of course they have direct experience of the product in question.
That seems reasonable
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The effect of that would be to wall off certain areas of the forum for discussions among "initiates only" which would not, IMHO, be a good thing.
Also, having no direct experience of something doesn't seem to stop most of us from chatting about it. The whole point is surely to discover new things, often by asking really dumb and ignorant questions. That's my approach anyway.
OTOH, I do understand where you are coming from. Perhaps, with Michael's approval, we can try to use this thread to arrive at some constructive understanding and/or ground rules?
 
Originally posted by sideshowbob
Let's have a water fight.
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nyah, typical ATC lightweight response. Where's your bass, man!
 
Originally posted by merlin

Sad thing is, many people don't remember what bass is supposed to sound like, else how the f*ck would some of todays speaker manufacturers exist?
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Very true!
Most folks equate it with the old boom - as in Mission boom and tizz (:JOEL: ), not yer proper floor and furniture-vibrating recording acoustic defining 15" EV/JBL type Gentlemans bass..
Maybe, as you say, people don't want real bass anymore cos of grief from their large, and no doubt axe wielding, neighbours.

Anyway, back to cables.
I'm a sceptic, btw what with a pro-audio background n'all (:p)- though I don't care what folks spend their money on. Some people buy identikit sportsbikes FFS, when for the same money they could get something different, with character, like a Manx Norton replica, or a Laverda JOTA, and have money over for a Nordost Valhalla mains cable ;)
 
Hey Lawrie, we're grown ups here (even if we don't act like it) so please don't insult the forums intelligence.

You know the reasoning behind your post as well as everyone. But you are both way off the mark and being deliberately and smuggly confrontational, so please just stick to hifi
 
Originally posted by merlin
Hey Lawrie, we're grown ups here (even if we don't act like it) so please don't insult the forums intelligence.

You know the reasoning behind your post as well as everyone. But you are both way off the mark and being deliberately and smuggly confrontational, so please just stick to hifi
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Merlin,

Once again, please explain the reasoning or agenda behind my post.:rolleyes:

I must say though that given the number of cable believers on the forum (myself included in a very small way;)), I am very surprised that you were the only one that responded to my post in the way that you did. Did my comments touch a raw nerve or are you just being confrontational as usual?




Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.:D
 
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Originally posted by leonard smalls
Laverda JOTA ;)
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proper hairy chested bike lovely orange colour, I seem to remember when it came out, if you bought one way back then and it coudn't do 180mph you could take it back for a new one, trouble was not many people could hold on at that speed No fairing IIRC)
 
I think we should all think ourselves lucky that we have lives in which the greatest day to day challange is whether or not a bit of wire changes the sound of hifi.

Quite pathetic really.
 
Lawrie - I hope you weren't trying to imply that any member of the forum who might be in the cable business (of which there are several) is using the forum as a sales tool. Clearly, if someone makes cables they believe in them so they will defend that belief.

kermit - I agree we don't want an "if you don't like it, piss off" approach at all. That's what I've been reacting against. There has been a suggestion by some people that that's what ZG was when it started and that's how it should stay (ie, if you don't believe in cables, piss off). As I mentioned a while ago, I think that the forum is currently pretty balanced in terms of believers/non-believers wheras before it was pretty much just believers. IMO it's better to have a wide range of views allthough that will inevitably lead to more disagreements.

joel - it would be an excellent idea to try and use this thread to create some ground rules. Perhaps rule number one should be that posting on a thread just to ridicule the view of someone else, whatever the subject matter, should be "verboten". By ridicule I would include all the little snide remarks and digs that I've seen recently, mostly from the cable believers I have to say (allthough many of the non-believers were major offenders earlier on).

Michael.
 
Originally posted by michaelab
Lawrie - I hope you weren't trying to imply that any member of the forum who might be in the cable business (of which there are several) is using the forum as a sales tool. Clearly, if someone makes cables they believe in them so they will defend that belief.
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they only times I can remember W-M talking about his wares is when someone asks him a direct question about them, hardly a veiled marketing ploy! the rest of the time he talks a lot of shite like the rest of us:D
 
Originally posted by michaelab
Lawrie - I hope you weren't trying to imply that any member of the forum who might be in the cable business (of which there are several) is using the forum as a sales tool. Clearly, if someone makes cables they believe in them so they will defend that belief.

Michael.
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Michael,

The operative word in your response is ' imply'. I can now assure you that there was no such implication. As you can see from my post, there was no direct reference to a company or particular individual ââ'¬â€œ it was a general or shall I say, speculative comment based on the fervour with which some 'believers' were making their comments and the brow-beating of some of the cable spectics by some of the 'believers' on the forum. But you have revealed something here which I wasn't even aware of which is that there are several cable manufacturers, dealers or even distributors participating on this forum. Before your comment I was aware of just one, WM, who I must say, does not promote his products on the forum (well not that I have seen anyway).

So if there are other cable manufacturers, distributors & dealers on the board, are they a secret or is there a list showing who these individuals are? Aren't manufacturers, distributors & dealers of hifi gear supposed to indicate their status somewhere (perhaps in their signatures) so that us non-audio professionals know who we are conversing or even arguing with? A list containing the names of these individuals would be useful (similar to Audio Asylum where these 'professionals' have to declare their status). I must say though that if what you say is right, it does help explain a lot.

Btw, I believe that a forum that emcompasses all views be they positive or negative, sceptic or non-sceptic is a healthy and engaging forum. If all football supporters supported just one football team, then the atmostphere at matches would be very boring indeed.;)



Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.:D
 
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Originally posted by Lawrie


So if there are other cable manufacturers, distributors & dealers on the board, are they a secret or is there a list showing who these individuals are? Aren't manufacturers, distributors & dealers of hifi gear supposed to indicate their status somewhere (perhaps in their signatures) so that us non-audio professionals know who we are conversing or even arguing with? A list containing the names of these individuals would be useful (similar to Audio Asylum where these 'professionals' have to declare their status). I must say though that if what you say is right, it does help explain a lot.

Lawrie.:D
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Why do you think some of them are using this forum to sell wares to our tight fisted bunch, I have been aware of no veiled marketing atempts by any of the manufacturers on this forum, they come on here as enthusiasts and generally offer a fair and balanced opinion of what they hear,
 
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Originally posted by analoguekid
manufacturers on this forum, they come on here as enthusiasts and generally offer a fair and balanced opinion of what they hear,
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Humm...........I feel that may a little too general for WM, as his personal opinion of some kit is Informous :D
I'll think you'll find Lawrie all 'industry pro's' are required to put there biz/website in their signiture.
 

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