REL Quake

ah well,
wasnt thinking of rel, more the diy option.....

maybe just bigger speakers then eh.

 

Get some Dynaudio 30W XL 12" Drive units, four running in an isobaric loading, use them as stands for the 1.3se crossing over at 500hz and Bob's your uncle - huge threeway floor standers. Contrary to some opinions it really isn't rocket science

 

that easy eh?
erm, mine are contour 1.1.
what they got is tuneful and good, but certain discs show the limit, and i am missing full on leftfield
Cables have helped, and this plan isnt complete yet, but i think the contours will still lack the lows.

 

Woah, duck out for two days and I end up 200 posts behind! This thread is craaaaazy...

Anyway, 'twas indeed good fun on Saturday and I enjoyed the hifi, the music, and the company (and the mind-altering substances) very much. AK's system is very cool. Bub and I tried hard but there really wasn't much to criticise about it at all.

Bub's theory about the crossover messing up the midrange (and thus the monitors sounding better without the bass boxes) is controversial at best - I think I may have heard a difference in the mids, but the extra solidity and body that the bass bins contributed seemed like a much more noticeable (and desirable) effect.

I will say that the tonal balance isn't quite to my preference - but that's true of 99.9% of non-ATC-based systems I've heard. It's just that nobody does midrange like ATC... So, yeah I suppose the midrange was a tad recessed for my tastes. But it wasn't a big deal. I just happen to be very picky.

The only other thing that I wasn't 100% convinced by was the whole "open, airy" soundstage. I've not yet made up my mind whether this effect is real, or if it's just a trick of the audiophile speaker designer's trade. (Maybe something in the crossover? Or the tweeters?) I do know that ATCs, and a few other very high quality systems I've heard, don't do "open and airy" except on particular discs - usually live recordings (or 'live in studio'), often older ones. Most modern multitracked recordings don't have much in the way of airiness at all on ATCs - there isn't any acoustic to hear, just the specific instruments/voices/sounds poisitioned in between the speakers according to the sound engineer's whim. But throw on something like my recently-discovered and much-loved Duke Ellington compilation CD of live recordings from the 50s and early 60s and all of a sudden you can hear the room. It's quite uncanny, and very cool.

It seems to me that audiophiles/phools are just conditioned to expect this "artificial" airiness that so many hifi systems produce. I have to admit it can be quite seductive. But it just doesn't seem real to me - and I've come to the conclusion that reality is my biggest turn-on in hifi. I want to be able to close my eyes and believe that the singer or instrument or orchestra is there in front of me (or, even better, that I'm in the room with them). My ATCs (and Bub's, and a few other systems I've heard that I could count on one hand) do this to a degree that pleases me.

I will also concede that it's possible the "airiness" effect is in fact a result of higher quality speaker design (better tweeters, crossovers, baffles, whatever) and the ATCs are in fact missing something. But I'm not yet convinced.

Anyway, sorry, my ranting wasn't actually directed specifically at AK's system. Indeed, his ARTs (especially when toed-in towards the listener) are quite subtle in their use of "air", enough that I wasn't bothered by the effect much at all - though AK likes them better with less toe-in and thus more air.

So, yeah, great system. Superb rhythm, pacing, etc, very quick, very clean, very smooth, ass-kicking dynamics and bass (that power amp is really something), frightening loudness capability, and really just a lot of fun. But I still like mine better.

Many thanks for being such a generous host, Paul, and look forward to doing it again some time.

Dunc

 

Mr P,

I'm still using the Microns, a similar sized unit to the 1.1 but sealed enclosure and better rated drive units. If you want fabulous imaging, then stick with the standmounts, but if you just want entertainment, go for a pair of passive subs (ala Verity & Wilson).

It's not cheap though, you will need an active crossover and seperate amp with volume control. And even then you might not really like it - that will depend on what turns you on Marge

 

Airy - Fairy

We want man's speakers

Thumbellina was a fairy wasn't she

 

spotted some meadowlarks, might need to butter up Mrs P

 

Oh, and thought I'd mention my experience comparing AV processors to stereo preamp. I have an ATC CA-2 stereo preamp, which goes for just shy of £800 new these days (and is great value at that). Last year I took home a Meridian 568.2 surround processor - this is a very well regarded £4K badboy that is known for excellent two-channel reproduction as well as world class surround decoding. It also has balanced XLR outs, which made for easy swapping with my ATC.

At the time I was considering trading in the ATC towards an all-in-one AV processor-based system, which would simplify wiring and remote issues, give me greater setup flexibility (particularly regarding bass management in surround and stereo) and improve my surround sound quality substantially (currently using an el-cheapo Yamaha proc for surround, which I've been meaning to upgrade for ages now).

At the time I had ATC Active 10s and an ATC Concept 2 sub.

One of my key concerns was two-channel performance of the Meridian. If it didn't sound at least as good as the ATC then I wasn't interested. I figured a £4K proc from Meridian would have a pretty good chance of at least sounding no worse than my £800 ATC. To cut a longish story short, I was wrong. The ATC was better, no matter what settings I used on the Meridian. The best setting was the pure direct mode, feeding my Meridian CD player's digital out into the dig in on the proc, DAing it internally then passing it directly to the speakers without fooking with the signal at all. This sounded very close to the ATC. Very close. Not quite... but I reckon I could live with it.

The thing is, one of my main reasons for the proposed swap would have been to make it easier to use my sub in stereo. As it was I needed XLR y-splitter cables and a tangly mess of leads. I especially wanted to be able to high-pass the Active 10s, as I reckoned their wee 5" woofers would be happier with the low bass rerouted to the sub. But when I switched the processor to the next-best stereo mode - i.e. straight stereo with no processing but a simple bass management setting - it reduced the sound quality quite significantly. I'm not talking earth-shattering night-and-day differences. But it was enough of a reduction to put me off the whole AV processor plan.

So now I'm back to saving up for a secondhand Lexicon MC-1 or Meridian 565 which I'll be using in place of my Yamaha - I'm leaving the ATC preamp where it is and don't intend to swap it for an AV processor in the foreseeable future.

Dunc

P.S. - I have no experience of the Krell proc so for all I know it could do stereo with no compromise. I just think it's somewhat unlikely.

 

I thought you were Mrs P with that hair do.
The Meadowlarks are quality, in fact I'm seriously considering getting a pair for meself if I can butter up Mrs Summit. I've been saving for a Record Cleaning machine (how anal) and fear the money might just be redirected were I to find a pair for the right price.

Bugger have I mentioned anal does that mean we have to do piles again

 

ouch
me piles

 

Coconut oil is more fun Mr P

I like Meadowlarks I must say. It would be interesting to hear the Blue Heron and compare it to some of the UK's big boys.

So if you are looking at studio monitors, which ones do we reckon work on a domestic footing other than the likely subjects? Anyone heard the Adam range? Impressed me recently I must say. Stirling Sound in New York rely on Proacs BTW

 

wanna buy some contour 1.1 with drednaught stands?
would suit you down to the ground sir!

 

Sadly Mr P I have access to some already, although I prefer the Crafft and the Micron.

PS. They work noticably better on Sonus R4 stands

PPS. They work even better on big bass cabs

 

must...
have.....
bass........

 

I'll give yer 50p and a lot of butter Mr P
Are you at liberty to say where you saw the Meadowlarks?

 

er
no
and no


In discussion with seller, if i pull out i will let you know

 

Bass Mr P!

It's the foundation of all great music makers you know

 

why is that Merlin? I have been to 3 classical concerts,and I didn't come away thinking wow,what great bass,its very big and deep and I need to recreate that at home,I came away thinking wow,what emotion,it stirred the soul,THATS,what I want at home,engagement with the music

so is big bass a personal thing? not loaded btw,genuine question,I just don't understand the big bass thing,but maybe thats becuase I have never heard it in a home HIFI,although I have seen many rock bands live (and again,that wasn't about big bass,it was about big volume,although Rush did some big bassy pieces,as did Floyd)

 

If you want 'live bass', I'd recommend seeing the Prodigy live.

Quite, quite stunning.

 

Merlin,
Indeed Meadowlark - it will be mine!

Saab, in a hifi sense, it adds more real feeling.

Voodoo -
Saw Prodigy at pheonix, try Leftfield or Eat Static for more bass