[Review] Getting animated

zanash said:
dave ......I said its not supposed to prove anything ......

the secret is for people to try the incense burn in the own room and see how height the smoke column will extend before breaking up......

this has been repeated at jackotrade's and uncle ant's with identical results .......maybe they will confirm this.

its just showing you a repeatable effect......
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guess i can do that.......:)


sounds good
 
I would volunteer to try the unit, or invite you to MK pete, but I haven't got a hifi - only a Sonic T amp, a PC and a pair of mission speakers.

I doubt the manufacturer would send one to me so that I can ''see if it works" !
 
just to repeat a point from earlier in the thread..

the movement of smoke from a joss stick doesn't seem relevant to me in the process of looking at the audio effects of an audiophile item.

proving or disproving the movement of smoke doesn't do anything (in my view) to further this.
 
melorib said:
No problem, but you still didnt answer my question... :rolleyes:
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FFS. Your question was this:

So what do you call if someone tells you that you are not hearing what you just said you are hearing, just imagining it...
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My answer was this:

People who sincerely report hearing something which turns out to be down to expectation or placebo are not lying, but they are mistaken. To be mistaken is not to be a liar. People hold beliefs about all sorts of things which later turn out to be false, but if they sincerely hold that belief they are not lying. Lying is deliberately and consciously saying something that one knows at the time to be false, rather than sincerely and honestly saying something which turns out to be an error.
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To keep it really simple (try reading it out loud if it helps), the one-word answer to this question:

So what do you call if someone tells you that you are not hearing what you just said you are hearing, just imagining it...
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is:

Mistaken.

Honestly, I have pre-teen nephews and nieces who are quicker on the uptake.

I'm now going to ignore you for the rest of my life.

-- Ian
 
zanash said:
the secret is for people to try the incense burn in the own room and see how height the smoke column will extend before breaking up......

this has been repeated at jackotrade's and uncle ant's with identical results .......maybe they will confirm this.

its just showing you a repeatable effect......
Click to expand...


just done a quick test...

I reckon between 1-2 feet.

How does that tie in?
 
bottleneck said:
just to repeat a point from earlier in the thread..

the movement of smoke from a joss stick doesn't seem relevant to me in the process of looking at the audio effects of an audiophile item.

proving or disproving the movement of smoke doesn't do anything (in my view) to further this.
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From an audio pov we are mostly concerned with the transmission (propagation) of sound through air - floors and walls are part of another discussion.

Apparently the claim is that this unit affects the air with the result that the sound travelling through it is enhanced.

What are the possibilities for changing the behaviour of the air in a room?

heat
moisture
excluding draughts
and so on

It seems that Pete is interested in identifying and/or eliminating the various possibilities. I would also suggest that he knows a fair bit about how smoke behaves and is therefore using that as a starting point.
 
as a former fireman, I'm sure he knows more about smoke than I ever will.

If changing smoke patterns can clearly be seen from the unit (and this is repeatable and demonstrable), then it's fair to assume that it probably has this effect.

I don't think anyone has said that the unit can't have an effect of some sort - on something.

The link many are having difficulty ascribing to (I believe) is that causing a breeze/de-humidifying (or whatever it's doing, if it's doing something)) can have a cause-effect on an audio system.


The arguement is somewhat circular of course, as asking Pete to travel the lengths and breadths of the country to prove some point is almost as great an ''ask'' as asking more sceptical people to accept the cause-effect of something with no known or proven scientific back up.

On the subject of scepticism, it's very healthy in my own personal view. I've learned through trying many sorts, that power cables, mains boxes, power conditioners, interconnects and speaker cables, green pens, cd-edge-sharpening are all a waste of my time and money. Given that I'm not alone to discover this through experience, scepticism over a new technology (with little scientific back-up) almost seems a foregone conclusion.

In finality, I'd say that the manufacturer really should provide detailed information to explain how the product works.

They haven't of course.. which makes rational debate on the scientific merit of the product difficult if not impossible.

To rationalize 'why'...

well...

some combination of..

1) They don't want competitors to know
2) They don't want you to see how cheap it would be to copy it, and make one for a fraction of £750
3) There is no real scientific evidence to show, and therefore they can't show it
4) They are afraid of a back-lash regarding the validity of the technology they are propogating
5) They assume that purchasers don't 'need to know' or 'want to know'
6) It's a niche product in a niche market, and 19 pages on a hifi forum is more publicity than they could ever have dreamed of receiving


My view? - well simply that the item will never/could never be accepted by the audio community without a detailed explanation of how it works. A mistake then in my view.
 
Stereo Mic said:
I have a life.
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How could you let that happen to you?

Btw I'd like to repeat a statement I made very early in this thread (or maybe a precursor thread): I have sat through three or four demonstrations of the Animator at shows. I was very much willing to give it the benefit of the doubt because someone whose ears I generally trust thought there was something to it. I haven't heard any effect whatsoever. Either there wasn't one or I'm just not perceptive to it. My money's on the first explanation.
 
bottleneck said:
On the subject of scepticism, it's very healthy in my own personal view. I've learned through trying many sorts, that power cables, mains boxes, power conditioners, interconnects and speaker cables, green pens, cd-edge-sharpening are all a waste of my time and money. .
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because you beleive....

1) they make no difference what so ever?

2) they make so litle imprvement as not to be worth it

3) (similar to above) you happy with your system as it is?

or,

4) other?





D.
 
bottleneck said:
The link many are having difficulty ascribing to (I believe) is that causing a breeze/de-humidifying (or whatever it's doing, if it's doing something)) can have a cause-effect on an audio system.
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Because many are having difficulty ascribing to, doesnt give them any pratical reason/right to say others are lying, or mistaken, or crazy, does it... :confused:
 
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DavidF said:
because you beleive....
1) they make no difference what so ever?
2) they make so litle imprvement as not to be worth it
3) (similar to above) you happy with your system as it is?
or,
4) other?
D.
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Hi David.

In most cases I would go with 1) 'they make no difference whatsoever'.

In a few cases, I'd have chosen 'a slight change could be heard. This couldn't be called an improvement, just a slight, marginal difference'


I have found, that every step along the audio path I've been able (with some judicious selling and buying) to reap worthwhile changes that unquestionably provided audible improvements (not slight marginal differences).

For example, I replaced (once) a Micromega T-Drive transport with a Meridian 500 (v.2) transport. The difference in second hand value was around an extra £250. The benefit was greater than the cumulative effect of any number of audio tweaks.

I've made many other changes like this, at all sorts of different price points.

For those that don't have it, for less than £100 you can get a full copy of 'Cara'. When used and implemented correctly, this will have a far greater effect than any of the tweaks that I mentioned in my previous post.

My view, if you like - is that audiophiles often concentrate on the 'wrong' tweaks.

I won't stand in judgement, or pre-judge anything however. In regard of this particular product I have no view or opinion, never having tried it (other than having a view on the poor marketing, and lack of scientific explanation behind it)
 
bottleneck said:
For those that don't have it, for less than £100 you can get a full copy of 'Cara'. When used and implemented correctly, this will have a far greater effect than any of the tweaks that I mentioned in my previous post.)
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[Its Chris isn't it?.... (or was that penance .......sorry!) ]

......I've not heared of this....can you tell me more...?

(or I'll google!)



bottleneck said:
My view, if you like - is that audiophiles often concentrate on the 'wrong' tweaks.
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..... what has worked for you......upgrading equipment regulary?


visa vis...go on....?
 
sure, happy to.

CARA is a stereophile product of the year, amongst other things.

Essentially, in it you model your listening room - including furniture, rugs, carpets etc.

You then provide areas in which you would be prepared to sit, and allow your speakers to be sited.

It will then advise what would be the most ideal setup for your hifi within those paramaters, and where you should sit to get the most even response.

It will also help you to 'model' changes you may make to the room - for example if you wanted to hang a tapestry on a wall in order to calm certain reflections - you can model it in CARA, and then get it to measure the response - before you go to the cost/effort of buying it.

It will take a few days to fully get to grips with the software, and the calculations are best calculated overnight (leave your PC running).

It's an amazing piece of software.

You can even use it to 'try' new speakers in your room (for example), before buying them!

http://www.cara.de/

NB
The 'shareware' version isn't a PATCH on the real thing, and really you need the complete, whole software.


I'd rather not go through all the things that I have found to be of benefit over the years, as this would turn into many pages of typing.

Hope the above is of use, anyway.

Cheers
Chris.
 
Very good if you are willing to put the speakers and your chair on physical thirds of the room dimensions, everybody can do that in their living rooms... :SLEEP:
 
bottleneck said:
NB
The 'shareware' version isn't a PATCH on the real thing, and really you need the complete, whole software.
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Very interesting, I've used the shareware release and found it limited but it sounds like the real thing is much more powerful if its capable of what your saying. Does it allow for you to import measured data and calculate based upon that?
 
You then provide areas in which you would be prepared to sit, and allow your speakers to be sited.

It will then advise what would be the most ideal setup for your hifi within those paramaters, and where you should sit to get the most even response.
Click to expand...

I think you must have missed that bit. Personally I think it sounds very interesting. Will try it out one day.
 

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