tones
compulsive cantater
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[Review] Getting animated
- Thread starter zanash
- Start date
Everybody knows that an active device uses a small current to modulate a large one. It's obvious that this object uses the same principles. Think levers.
Or it's a blue LED in a box which rattles.
Paul
TonyL
Club Krautrock Plinque
Tones said:
Wiffle dust?
Tony.
PS your write up had me LOL - excellent stuff.
Tones wrote:
You're quite right Tones. A more recent catch-all term for New Age beliefs and paraphernalia and bogus bad science is ' woo-woo '. So perhaps I could be the first to coin the phrase ' woo-fi '.
The language used is freely interchangeable; Energies, waves, fields and resonance are always popular it seems. Sympathetic Resonant Technology is the latest nonsense, I don't doubt this will be making an appearance in some woo-fi device sooner rather than later.
You're quite right Tones. A more recent catch-all term for New Age beliefs and paraphernalia and bogus bad science is ' woo-woo '. So perhaps I could be the first to coin the phrase ' woo-fi '.
The language used is freely interchangeable; Energies, waves, fields and resonance are always popular it seems. Sympathetic Resonant Technology is the latest nonsense, I don't doubt this will be making an appearance in some woo-fi device sooner rather than later.
felix your making a big assumption .....your presuming that you know whats happening ....I certainly do not.
I will repeat again for those of you who are looking for easy answers ...I can only tell you what I've heard ...along with the backing of those people who have correctly implimented the device.
I will repeat again for those of you who are looking for easy answers ...I can only tell you what I've heard ...along with the backing of those people who have correctly implimented the device.
interesting thought ...
shame you heard no difference ...must have been much like when you tested one of my cables ......[that everybody else can hear except you]
just to be fair Pete, I tried them, and whilst being impressed by the excellent construction, and generosity of the trial, they sounded the same as the others I have.
I only mention because you said -everybody- and whilst I'm not especially important in the scheme of things, I'm a somebody.
true .....!
must amend my memory ...[I've had 3 people say they can't hear a change]
actually it runs at about 2% of the hifi hobby that can't... in my experience
But again, you as I recall don't think cables make any difference either ....so a pattern could be developing.
No disrespected intended
Those hifi users who have found that their systems sound better by changing the wires they use, are strangely or not, often able to hear other "subtle" changes, in this I include mains cables, ic's, cd lathe etc.
Correct me if I'm wrong but all the dissenters are the very same people who Know none of the above work....[a generalization
of course] this is no great shock. Some of them would argue black was white if they thought there was any mileage in it! imo...
So tones still needs to explain why he has missed certain relavent parts from his long and well written post. Why would the dealer I contacted, stress the need to use the device in a virtually sealed room While the av dealer tones visited did not ? Its interesting that tones also wanted to show the other products available ...can't think why that was ...can you ! Would it be to add weight to his post .....if the unit tones used had no effect would this not be sufficient ?.....
As one of the effects I demonstrated to those people interested enough to listen to the unit in there own systems. Tones alludes to the use of a mobile phone. This is quite correct and acts exactly as described ...but is not so easy to accomplish in real life ....as Uncle ants will agree I had to try it several times before it was effective. A much better test was to just switch the unit off with the music playing and listen to the collapse of the sound stage ..most recently demoed to jimbo. In which case the loss of the effect was clearer than when the unit was first switched on in his opinion.
so we get down to the nitty gritty ....if I use a scale of 1-10 where 1 is no effect and 10 is mindbogglingly fantastic....
I've placed the zerogain members aganist the perceived effect..the numbers following are none zg member I visited...I can put there names up but that would be meaningless as your unlikely to know ...a mr woodcock of carlton, or a mr king of arnold etc [the asterisk is a pf member]
1......tones
2....
3....davidF
4....banpe2006 2
5....uncle ants 2
6....sq221759 ed rogerson* 4
7....Iainr, jimbo, jackotrades 3
8....zanash, tony.garner 1
9....1
10...
now I hear you shout you claimed 30 listeners [give or take].....the 13 none members had there wives or partners present and in a couple of instances so did the zg members.
[apology's to anyone I've missed]
This is meant to represent nothing more than a graphic illustration, no inferences should be drawn from this other than to show the level of perceived effect in various systems. Though it does look like a certain distribution curve ...but I'm not reading it as such !
So what am I saying ........all these people heard the unit in there own systems only five or so had specifically asked to hear it ..the others were offered a listen after we had in most case tried davidf's feet [now tones they really work and in some case make a bigger change than the room animator]
using the data above the percentage that have no effect is ....3% 1 in 30 ish that also correlates quite closely with the percentage at the top of the post. Could there be a reason for this ....who knows?
Though if you plough through some the cable flame wars, this does seem to be a fair percentage . I'm not going to say their right or wrong or attempt to convert them. If we accept that there are a certain small percentage that can't hear cables etc, and conversely a percentage [larger] that can, and no amount of tub thumping or demonstrations will be of the slightest use ...imo the happier we will all be.
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tones
compulsive cantater
I'm sorry, Pete, but you really haven't got the message, have you? This constant tactic of yours of trying to cloud the issue and score cheap points by making insinuations that the character and/or the practice of the individual concerned is not all that it should be does not impress anyone - it only makes people wonder why you have to resort to such tactics, and therefore whether you yourself are not quite so confident of your results as you purport.
I shall repeat one last time - I performed the test as the dealer described. Why Herr Baschung wasn't so adamant about a sealed room I know not, you'd have to ask him (warning - his English is nearly non-existent). However, as I normally listen with windows and doors closed (in order not to disturb the neighbours or the family up above), that's how I did it. Nothing can or should be read into the fact that I didn't mention it. So, stick to the facts and lay off the insinuations - it makes your case (such as it is) stronger.
P.S. Another detail comes to mind. In Herr Baschung's showroom, there is a Room-Animator permanently switched on - beside a permanently open door. Yet it was clear that this was a non-issue for him as he says he hears the effect. Mind you, all the windows were closed, so there was no draught through the room. Perhaps that's more the "critical factor".
P.P.S. Further thought - if this thing works on quartz, Oensingen sits literally in the shadow of a whopperous lump of the stuff - the Jura mountains, which tower over the village. Could it be that this is what is giving Herr Baschung his effect? (On the other hand, how exactly does one turn off a mountain range?). Perhaps we mountain folk don't need such things.
)I was only going to take the Room-Animator, but Herr Baschung said that he'd never had a client with my scientific/technical background in before, so he was keen that I try the Audio-Animator and report back to him (his actual words were, "It's different from having a carpenter or a plumber test it!")
I also did that, and nothing collapsed, not even my expectations (which, admittedly, were zero).
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I think you have answered everyones question with your final line...
I quote
I also did that, and nothing collapsed, not even my expectations (which, admittedly, were zero).
says it all ....and shows this was not an impartial or valid assessment....imo
Why can't you accept that other people might just be able to hear things that you can't......
I'm happy that you can hear these things for whatever reason .....
Why can't you offer me the same courtesy ?
I've never told you that what I'm hearing is correct [though I do know I am hearing it ].... it's backed up by all the other people I've mentioned and their posts, that you have ignored.
I can't second guess the conversation you had with the dealer ....maybe he's not up to much ? There are similar dealers in this country too ....who for what ever reason don't pass on all the information available ......
I also note that no mention was made of listening in the dealership .....thats down right odd. I've only ever been offered a home loan following a dealer demo.....this case in point.
Did you forget to mention the the reactivation process too ?
If the unit doesn't work when you get it home ....there are some specific things you need to do ...I assume you followed these ?
Actually I feel rather sorry for the dealer ...who has loaned you the kit
...did you happen to mention you knew the units would not work I bet you did ....?
If I'd been in his place I would have had to think very carefully if it was worth the risk of loaning the items to someone who would not be able to hear them.
I quote
I also did that, and nothing collapsed, not even my expectations (which, admittedly, were zero).
says it all ....and shows this was not an impartial or valid assessment....imo
Why can't you accept that other people might just be able to hear things that you can't......
I'm happy that you can hear these things for whatever reason .....
Why can't you offer me the same courtesy ?
I've never told you that what I'm hearing is correct [though I do know I am hearing it ].... it's backed up by all the other people I've mentioned and their posts, that you have ignored.
I can't second guess the conversation you had with the dealer ....maybe he's not up to much ? There are similar dealers in this country too ....who for what ever reason don't pass on all the information available ......
I also note that no mention was made of listening in the dealership .....thats down right odd. I've only ever been offered a home loan following a dealer demo.....this case in point.
Did you forget to mention the the reactivation process too ?
If the unit doesn't work when you get it home ....there are some specific things you need to do ...I assume you followed these ?
Actually I feel rather sorry for the dealer ...who has loaned you the kit
...did you happen to mention you knew the units would not work I bet you did ....?
If I'd been in his place I would have had to think very carefully if it was worth the risk of loaning the items to someone who would not be able to hear them.
Bob McC
living the life of Riley
I also did that, and nothing collapsed, not even my expectations (which, admittedly, were zero).
says it all ....and shows this was not an impartial or valid assessment....imo
On the contrary, it is one of the few examples of decent scientific methodology in this thread.
says it all ....and shows this was not an impartial or valid assessment....imo
On the contrary, it is one of the few examples of decent scientific methodology in this thread.
bob mccluckie.... not at all .....quote
Very clever.
So those who hear nothing haven't implemented the device correctly?
Very objective!
As far as I know only two people have used this ...one doesn't seem to know how...or has not had the instructions fully explained, he did take a load of gear so there could be an element of confusion. I have no experience with any of the other items mentioned by tones so I can only speculate that something has been missed in implementation or in hand over by the dealer..
As I have said I'm happy to drag it round to anyone for a demo ...it may or not have an effect ....
I've had a 100% successe rate ....so far. All who have had this in there system have heard a change however small.
if you want a listen pm me ....whats fairer than that [assuming your not too far away max 150mile round trip]
sorry tenson ..your just too far away
Very clever.
So those who hear nothing haven't implemented the device correctly?
Very objective!
As far as I know only two people have used this ...one doesn't seem to know how...or has not had the instructions fully explained, he did take a load of gear so there could be an element of confusion. I have no experience with any of the other items mentioned by tones so I can only speculate that something has been missed in implementation or in hand over by the dealer..
As I have said I'm happy to drag it round to anyone for a demo ...it may or not have an effect ....
I've had a 100% successe rate ....so far. All who have had this in there system have heard a change however small.
if you want a listen pm me ....whats fairer than that [assuming your not too far away max 150mile round trip]
sorry tenson ..your just too far away
Dev
Moderator
Would you believe that this is the longest thread ever in the reviews sections? The second is the the CD Lathe thread.
tones
compulsive cantater
Naturally, your assessment was. As another poster previously stated
- it works; great piece of kit!
- it doesn't work, you're deaf, you have an agenda, you didn't do it properly.
Here you go again. Please indicate to me when I haven't done this. I accept you hear what you heard. What I don't accept it that what you heard is actually there in reality.
Eh? You're always saying, "use your ears". I do precisely that, and when I don't hear what you want my ears to hear, suddenly I have to take notice of other people's ears too. You are having me on, aren't you?
Aha, now it's the dealer's fault too...
I didn't listen there. No point, because it would have been with equipment and music which I didn't know. Swiss dealers are generally happy to let you borrow stuff without a trial in the dealership, precisely because of that reason.
I went through the whole shebang several times. Although how exactly one reactivates something that wasn't active in the first place is somewhat of a mystery...
Yes, if it doesn't work, try again (that's what the (original German language) instructions say).
Pete, I'm afraid your desperation to prove my test invalid shows ("did you forget...?" " I assume...?"). You are grasping at straws here; it was all done exactly as prescribed by the dealer and in the instructions (which are the original German language ones from the manufacturer). You know something that the manufacturer/dealer doesn't?
Remember also that I write patents for a living and we have to present accurate, reproducible examples and data as part of the job. So, proper experimental procedure is second nature.
Naturally - I told him I didn't believe a single word of it.
He was a nice man, who obviously believes in the product he sells, and he was more than happy to take the risk that I wouldn't like it. He conceded that the price was high and that the difference perceived would have to be enormous to justify it. I naturally took the best of care of it, and now it's neatly wrapped in its original packing, ready to go back.
can't understand why ....!!!
you know this needs a bakeoff or something ....
anyone interested in that ?
I can't offer my home as its just too small ....
Yes.... It's not getting anywhere the naysayers it can't work ...those who have heard it [except tones] all say it does ....
Tones you have clearly missed a procedure ......if you don't know what it is please read the german instructions it clearly tells you to do something with the unit ....I'm not going to tell you what it is ......for the many obvious reasons. The unit requires activation the dealer should have told you ...but it does state this clearly in the fifth paragraph of the instruction sheet ....
ie you could just say ..yes I did that,
or what a load of rubbish or if it doesn't work out of the box why should I do anything else ...
you know this needs a bakeoff or something ....
anyone interested in that ?
I can't offer my home as its just too small ....
Yes.... It's not getting anywhere the naysayers it can't work ...those who have heard it [except tones] all say it does ....
Tones you have clearly missed a procedure ......if you don't know what it is please read the german instructions it clearly tells you to do something with the unit ....I'm not going to tell you what it is ......for the many obvious reasons. The unit requires activation the dealer should have told you ...but it does state this clearly in the fifth paragraph of the instruction sheet ....
ie you could just say ..yes I did that,
or what a load of rubbish or if it doesn't work out of the box why should I do anything else ...
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Dev
Moderator
You forgot Markus.
For all your criticism of "naysayers", you forget that they CAN hear the differences between different makes/model of kit. Some of them are very critical listeners. So, implying that they are deaf or worse is insulting to say the least. On the flip side, I can see why criticisms from someone who hasn't tried these tweaks will hurt but if they have tried it and found little or no difference in sound, it should be accepted as just that.
If the differences were that obvious we would not have this controversy.
sideshowbob
Trisha
Exactly. It's precisely because the differences are tiny, so tiny that some people think they may be in their head rather than reality, that there's any dispute about the effects of this sort of device at all (likewise cables, power leads, stands, magic disks, etc etc etc etc). If the differences were major they would be uncontroversial.
The bad grace with which zanash is treating Tones' entirely fair trial of this thing is illustrative of the lack of respect for other people's experience some were accusing sceptics of exhibiting earlier in the thread. Oh, the irony.
-- Ian
tones
compulsive cantater
Pete, I know I'm not going to satisfy your every need. First of all, it was:
"You haven't listened to it!"
then it was:
"You had your windows open!"
then it was:
"You didn't follow procedures properly!"
then it was:
"You didn't reactivate it!".
Well, I confess. I did fail in one respect
I did not incinerate it in the middle of a pentangle with a candle burning at each apex, and dance around it five times clockwise and then five times anticlockwise while reciting the appropriate verses from the Kabbala.I did this out of respect for Herr Baschung, because he wanted it back in perfect condition.The instructions are at home, but I remember nothing about the unit requiring activation. I mean, you plug it in and you turn it on and you leave it. Is this activation an extrapolation of your own? Are you not going to tell me what it is, because it actually isn't there?
Dev
Moderator
