Seventh Veil

Indeed, good luck with the advert series Steve.

Cheers

 

It's a deal. I'll try to persuade Alex S to get his wheels out.

I'm slightly biased about SBLs because in my small room I needed something that would go flat to the wall. At the time no one could sell me such a beast. In the new house, who knows.

 

Ah so a stereo image might come as something of a shock to the system then

 

Stereo I get,

what's image?

 

I like this design philosphy a lot. shame they are way to expensive for me to justify any purchase.

Robbo

 

Hmmm, so you're the one responsible, MO!. Commission, huh! How about you carry the can if things go wrong? I note today from Tom:

Our forthcoming demo is getting better by the minute.

In fact, wall placement of the Nonsuch 4s will be fine in terms of frequency response. However, I can show that other aspects of the sound, particularly imaging, will be improved for every inch we can get away from the wall. How much distance can you give me, Tom? What the heck, we'll go with whatever we can get.

And yes, the Kleenex/emotion is No#1 in the eBay/audiogon series. I'm working on No#2 and hope that you'll be suitably amused when it's launched.

 

You can have as much as you need. I want to be shown what they can do. I don't need to live with them in this house and I hope the next one will have a much bigger listening / living room so we can move furniture, knock down walls, whatever and get it as musical as you can.

 

Oh come on Robbo, where's your commitment to the cause? Haven't you got a house to sell, car, wife, dog, kids? I often find that those who say that they can't afford them have merely got their priorities confused.

 

Actually, I was rather hoping we could knock down a few walls on Tuesday.

 

Personally, I'd rather have a nice car than a set of megabucks speakers I'm not really in the market now anyhow.

Cheers, Robbo

 

Not more Weapons of Mass Destruction, I'll warn the neighbours

 

It's what you get when you accuratly reproduce Stereo signals Tom

 

Not round my place it doesnt

Seriously , I like the ideas, but I have questions. Firstly what's the latency of the bass unit, given that there is no delay available for the signal from the satellites Surely, as with the Nestorovic system, the sound from the satellites will arrive early given their relevent proximity to the listener.

Nestorovic claim that a time delay of 3ms is inconsequential in comaprison with the affects of room modes and standing waves. this philosopy however, works on the assumption that the bass will be compromised, like building a system around the weakest link.

Secondly, why the downward firing sub Is this purely for aestetic reasons, I prefer the idea of a driver firing into the wall personally to enhance impact and clean up the impulse response.

I hope the project pans out, Separate subs and satellites, properly implemented, can IMO give superlative large scale sound without impinging on domestic harmony. Would be interesting to hear just how much better your concept sounds when hooked up to DSP generated active crossovers and DRC.

 

By 'latency' I assume you mean time delay between the subs and mains (I'm afraid I'm not very well versed in HT lingo). I'm with Nestorovic on this in that I don't think it's critical below 100Hz. However, with separate subs you would actually have more ability to adjust the time differential between the mains and the subs, if you wanted. You just move the subs nearer to the listening position.

Again, at the very low frequencies (low cut-off point and high order slope), there shouldn't be a difference. I agree that there is a difference with many actual implementations.

I have no objection to anyone turning the Little Awesomes on their side and firing them in any direction they choose. There is another benefit to the down-firing however, and this is surprisingly significant ....

It's to do with the coupling or decoupling of the sub to the floor. With a forward (or backward, sideways, whatever) firing driver it's vital to keep the enclosure rock-steady in space to maintain clarity. That's the reason that spikes are commonly used. However, the spikes actually couple the speaker to the floor and with wooden floors the vibration will smear the bass. With a downward or upward firing driver, there's no need for spikes and we can therefore isolate the subs from the floor with a corresponding increase in clarity at the low end.

As you know merlin, there are compromises in every speaker design. It's a question of how we choose to cut the cake. Incidentally, I came across a fascinating article on the subject yesterday: The Art of Speaker Design - Lynn Olson. I hope you find it as interesting as I did.

Thanks, merlin. Yes, it's difficult to achieve sonic harmony without domestic harmony. On the DSP stuff, you mean for the subs, yes? I'd be keen to try but haven't yet. However, anyone who tries to put in anything at all that can clutter up my Nonsuch 4 full-rangers had better watch out. :clint:

 

Steve, are they your own drivers? are are you using a quality design such as scanspeak or Viva? WM (ps why doesn't any one ask us how stunning amazing and system transforming our products are??? )

 

Seventh Veil's drivers are designed for us by Doreen Bance of Bandor. She's been in the driver game since the early days at Goodmans and makes fabulous units.

BTW, How stunning, amazing and system transforming are your products? I need to know.

 

What you mean like, dac,s Preamp stages, poorly matched cable impedances, Power amp input drivers, phono stages, MC transformers..................

But by doing that, you either move the satellites closer to the rear wall (Compromising imaging) or pull the subwoofers away from the back wall (compromising transient attack and bass imapct). So you are unable to correct for the delay in the bass without compromising the system performance further. have you taken impulse measurements of the system?

I'm not, time alignment errors in the bass are only disguised by room modes which are themselves harmful. Properly treat the room and the delay will become obvious as an apparent improvement in ambience at the expense of transient impact and precision.

Again I would have to disagree, what happens to the backwave of the subs output, along with the phase cancellation likely in this implementation. Far better to fire into a solid wall (a la Tact and Nestorovic), this avoids the problem of the backwave interference. Similar ideas are used in Martin Logan bass units (force forward) and JBL PD series, but both these US giants implement the correction in the digital domain.

 

No surprise there then. I was going to post saying they look like Jordan JX92's but the Bandors are similar for obvious reasons. I'll bet these speakers sound very coherent and natural.

I was considering building a pair of closed box columns with 4 JX92s in a vertical arrangement. I'll get round to it one of these days.

Chris

 

Thank you Steve For all you Musical needs we can help your system achieve with big smiles. WM

 

Quite, the last thing we need is other equipment messing up the sound. The best thing is to set the speakers up and then sit back, relax with a bottle of wine and use your imagination.

You've raised some interesting points, merlin. As I said, we have to choose which way we slice the speaker design cake. I will just talk about impulse measurement, however. I've always been an ears man, although I believe that meausrement is essential. Here's my story (abridged) ...

1. Bought EFT5 measurement software.
2. Bought a calibrated mike and preamp.
3. Discovered that the sound-card on my PC was too noisy on one channel to make accurate measurements.
4. Bought a new soundcard that plugs into my USB port.
5. Tried to install the new soundcard.
6. Discovered that it wouldn't work with my operating system (Windows 98).
7. Bought Windows XP Pro - upgrade.
8. Started to install Windows XP.
9. Discovered that this installation is a major project and various people have advised me that this O/S would slow my PC down too much.
10. Waiting until I get some time to sort this out.

Any advice on this anyone?