Top mastering engineers views on monitors

julian2002 said:
it's the absolutism of the statements made that are getting my goat. as in 'such and such a brand do everythign well because some studio or rock band use them' i'm sure that they are very good speakers in the surroundings in question but to claim thay are the best for everyone and everything is naive.
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Good grief, get over yourself!

I KNOW that you are wrong when you suggest that speakers which play classical music well, can't play any other type of "bangin'" programme equally well. This is NOT "absolutism", it's experience speaking, and it is you who are naive/inexperienced.

Ian is saying the exact same thing as me, but in a less direct manner.
 
sideshowbob said:
But some quite evidently do it better than others. And I suspect a majority of speakers that are truly good in this respect are made by, or use drivers made by, companies who work in both the pro audio and domestic hifi markets.



Not if the engineer is competent (and allowed to do her job properly), and the domestic playback equipment is up to the job.

-- Ian
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Ian you of course are titled to your opinion but I put this to you. The violin on playback is never the same as the original played live. unless your room is exactly the same as the studio - I mean identical in every respect and the playback equipment is exactly the same, (in Bob Ludwigs case mainly 2" tape) then it will only be an approximation. And as we have not been in the same room as when the album was mastered (well some of us have) then you are only guessing if you are close or not and any comment to the contrary is surely not valid. Another though. Is a photograph taken with the worlds best camera on 35mm film and developed on 7x5" best quality paper likely to give an accurate representation of what you look like? Of course not because I personally have never seen a human being that is smaller than 5" tall!

Dominic
 
The violin on playback is never the same as the original played live.
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Well obviously not, it's a reproduction, and therefore an approximation (I haven't suggested anything else). But some reproductions are closer to the real sound of the live instrument than others, this is obviously down to both the recording and also the playback equipment. Some playback equipment manifestly does a better job of this than others. This doesn't seem even slightly controversial to me, why on earth is it a point of debate?

-- Ian
 
bub,
don't ever change. you bring a ray of sunshine into lives now sadly bereft of comedians of your calibre. those comedy greats such as eric morcombe, tarby, bob monkhouse. tell me do you do a saturday night down the hospice for the oldies?

ian,
it's not the fact that kit a does a better job than kit b. it's the assertion that kit a is THE best there is for everyone. the mere fact that there are a number of different studio monitors used by equally prestigious studios means that those who uphold the latter assertion are competing with ourobouros - only backwards.
cheers

julian
 
julian2002 said:
it's the assertion that kit a is THE best there is for everyone. the mere fact that there are a number of different studio monitors used by equally prestigious studios means that those who uphold the latter assertion are competing with ourobouros - only backwards.
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It could also mean that most studios do not approach this in a scientific or rational manner, or are as prone to the whims of fashion as any of us on here (more so perhaps). I can think of one organisation that does things differently, but I would say that wouldn't I.
Ahh the big Westlakes. Sold as hifi speakers in this part of the world. Awesome, but an awesome price as well. I think they use JBL and TAD drivers, but I could be way off mark there.
 
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It could also mean that most studios do not approach this in a scientific or rational manner, or are as prone to the whims of fashion as any of us on here (more so perhaps).
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Or they judge kit on backhanders and other things that help grease the wheels of industry.

The BBC are the only company that I know of that developed a monitor for a specific use. To monitor the voice. They felt get that right and most other things will be OK. For most people the LS3/5A did just that and the Spendor BC1 if you needed some bass. Neither of these are perfect, but for what they were designed to do, they are magnificent.
 
Ahh the big Westlakes. Sold as hifi speakers in this part of the world.
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I bet there isn't much space left in a typical Japanese room once you have a record deck with at least three arms, the largest valve monoblocks known to man and a pair of bloody Westlakes plonked in there. Probably just enough room for a very small chair. I love the Japanese, they have exactly the right attitude!

Tony.

PS Townhouse are down as having HR1s, so it was Westlakes I was on about earlier. Nice speakers!
 
I found this thread to be most entertaining, apart from Dom, how many other regularly visit studio's and have made direct comparisions of speakers/ any kit ?
Its like the rolling roads no 2 are the same, but that doesn't matter that much, as your using each one a basic benchmark from which to start from, no matter how 'out' the may be
Prehaps a Z/g visit to a proper studio to ask the people concerned instead of this guess work eh?
I've got a thing, find a sound you like (how ever coloured.uncoloured) and stick with it, It works for me.
 
wadia-miester said:
I found this thread to be most entertaining, apart from Dom, how many other regularly visit studio's and have made direct comparisions of speakers/ any kit ?
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I'm in recording studios on an occasional basis. It's (a small) part of my job to record the occasional voice over. I haven't made a direct comparison with hifi kit, but then it's work and I don't have the time, money or inclination to play games like that.
 
Joel,

We visit a few for a wide varitey of reasons including professional, and I do take interest in how the 'finished sound' is made and how many different approaches to the same conundrum are offered, I will make this point though, of all the mixing/recording techinians we talk to, their home sets up are completely different, as are they beliefs in various stand/cables/mains/mixing methods, asked why they bought their particular home systems answer "I liked the way it sounded"
Always interesting visiting the pro's at work :)
 
You don't need to have any experience or knowledge of the recording process to be able to close your eyes, listen to something, and judge how real it sounds.

Having said that, I've been present at the recording sessions for around half a dozen studio albums, and any number of live recordings. FWIW.

-- Ian
 
Hi Tony, well I guess you've compared them with ATC active 200s.

Hi Julian, don't worry I won't change. You would if you heard some decent speakers, though.
 
julian2002 said:
ian,
most of the speakers (well systems) that i've heard that have been truly convincing with things like violins or orchestral music were unconvincing with the other types of music - for example the lumpley / hovland / audiomecca system i heard at jj's - orchestral music rendered beautifully whilst rock was overblown and uninteresting.
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Is there any possibility that your tastes in orchestral playback might run to the slightly larger-than-life, which might lead to rock music being overblown on the same system? You're not the biggest fan of classical music IIRC :)
 
I found this thread to be most entertaining, apart from Dom, how many other regularly visit studio's and have made direct comparisions of speakers/ any kit ?
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I used to co-own / co-run a small project studio (Soundcraft 24/8/2, Adat etc) about 12 years ago, so have had plenty of opportunity in the past to run multitrack masters through my home system etc. I've still got quite a few friends working / not-working in the field, so I'm still vaguely in touch with what's going on technology wise, and get to see quite a few studios. I've no longer got sufficiently current skills to be much use to anyone - I just don't understand the new computerised digital automated desks / word clocks etc!

Tony.

PS Anyone want to buy a slightly tatty but fully working Soundcraft Spirit Studio 24/8/2 mixer?
 
Come on guys, get with the program! ATCs are the best speakers bar none and those who are not using them are going to be stuck with mid-fi sound forever.
 
TonyL said:
To be honest ATC and especially Dynaudio are pretty mid-fi when it comes to monitors, the really serious stuff is tailor made and custom built into the walls as part of a whole acoustically designed control room. I went to Townhouse to cut an album many years ago and the monitoring was 2x15ââ'¬Â bass drivers, various mids and a horn tweeter all built directly into the wall ââ'¬â€œ ISTR it was a Westlake room using JBL drivers, but I may be wrong.

Tony.

(who personally finds Dynaudio way to bright and forward to mix on!)
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Yup, most studios have the arrangement you've mentioned above. However, they usually also have a couple of sets of smaller speakers - so they can flick between them and compare the sound. The monitors built into the wall are assumed to be the accurate system - whereas the smaller speakers are used to ensure the mix sounds 'reasonable' on more average equipment. As someone else stated above - Yamaha NS10's are often used ... cos it it sounds good on them, then it'll sound good on anything. Getting a balance bewteen all sets of speakers is important.

However, I think we're kinda going around in circles now - and covering the same groud.

BUT - I wonder if any recordings are mastered only on the best system? ie - it's not 'dumbed down' for average ghetto blasters and car stereos. I guess audiophile grade recordings should be made this way ... but ... how do we know if they have been?

It seems a bit odd listening to a CD on even a £1000 system, when the original mix was done using cheap NS10's. Do audiophile grade / SACD type recordings state what equipment they've been mixed on? I don't yet have SACD gear so I can't comment ...

Steve
 
Unless they use ATCs and Mana in which case they're already stuck in mid-fi forever.
 
The Devil said:
The CDS2 f'rinstance is a lot, lot better than you appear to think it is.
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About as good as a Marantz CD63 I seem to remember.

Come on Bub, you can't have it both ways, either the CDS2 is a vast waste of money barely outperforming a 10 year old CD player that used to sell for £250 or it is the best thing since and including segmented bread ... the world waits ...


Cheers

Jason
 
Robbo said:
Come on guys, get with the program! ATCs are the best speakers bar none and those who are not using them are going to be stuck with mid-fi sound forever.
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You obvioulsy haven't heard of PMC, Quested, Genelec then. They are all equal or better than ATC. Perhaps even Harbeth. There is a view in the industry that ATC's drive units are getting a bit long in the tooth.

I have tried to sell my Harbeths compact 7s, they are the best box speaker I have heard, and I am wondiring if its the right thing to do, I can't find anything anywhere near as natural, as 'right'.

I dont know about this viloin thing, strings do not sound the same reproduced, they lose something, some resonance some richness, just hear one live, recorded they do sound thin, weedy, shrill. Valves with no feedback does make them better

You have to hear a string quartet in the street to know. Or even brass, hear a salvation army band, and the richness of the horns, the rasp of the trumpets. It really is a revelation.

I don't know if its additive distortion, ie the regular type in the measurements, I don't suppose it can be, with a tranny amp that is 0.001% THD or whatever.
Maybe something is taken away, maybe the measurement people ought to start comparing the spectra of the recorded version with the live, and see if there is any difference. If not, then :confused:
 
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