Turntable choices

[tones]

Re: Gentlemen and Bub in particular

Originally posted by mick parry
Marco

Your Thorens will wipe the floor with a LP12. Why not resurect it, it will provide you with much fun.

Regards

Mick

Mick, I don't know the Thorens that Marco owns, but for years I owned and loved a Thorens TD160II with SME IIIS/Shure V15-IV. When I ran this against a second-hand LP12/Ekos/K9, borrowed from the Basel Linn dealer, I was staggered at how superior the LP12 was, so much so that I dug deep and bought it right away. So, you never know, the Thorens may be the mop-end of the wiping equipment.

 

[The Devil]

I think Marco's ownership of a TT may well be yet another figment of an over-active imagination.

It does beg the question: why sell all your vinyl LPs if you own an allegedly very good turntable?

 

[Marco]

Re: Re: Merlin

Originally posted by merlin

With regards to experience, again I might listen to you when you have had a SME30, Avid Acutus, Vpi HRX, Simon Yorke S7, Well Tempered Reference, Clearaudio Master Reference and Verdier Platine at home. Only then will your ridiculous stance have the substance that you seem to believe it does.

Merlin, without meaning to be facetious, what "ridiculous stance" do you refer to?

The Naim CD player will be here next week, for comparison with a few other top end players. I will give it a chance, but on hearing it at the shop...

Forgive my ignorance, but I wasn't aware you are a dealer, or if not, what do you mean by "at the shop"?

I have to say the Eclipse is easily it's equal to these ears, the CD12 is impressive, and the Audio Aero far more analogue sounding. But I suspect in an all Naim system, it would be difficult to beat.

The only one I've heard from that lot is the CD12, and "impressive" is certainly not how I would have described it... (Considering its ludicrous price!) However I concur with your last sentence regarding the CDS3, although my feelings are that much of its talent is derived from the new PSU and Burndy, which when used in conjunction with a CDS2 head unit offers a more cost-effective package.

Marco.

 

[Marco]

Re: Re: Gentlemen and Bub in particular

Originally posted by tones

Mick, I don't know the Thorens that Marco owns, but for years I owned and loved a Thorens TD160II with SME IIIS/Shure V15-IV.

Tones, the TD124 is a different beast entirely. It's built like no other Thorens T/T, and outwardly looks more like a Garrard. It is arguably THE classic deck to have, it'll certainly give the 301 a run for its money, and I was very fortunate to pick one up quite cheaply three years ago at a vintage hi-fi sale. The plinth needs some work done on it, but what it's worth today I could only guess... they're relatively rare beasts.

Marco.

 

[Paul Duerden]

The 124 is a unique deck in that it is the only one I know which uses both a belt and an idler to drive the platter. Presumably the belt is there to decouple idler noise from the platter.

The deck really benefits from a very solid plinth and both the Martin Bastin Maxplank or a Slate one are ideal. A seperate power supply is also a big step fprward, again Martin Bastin makes one as I believe do Loricraft. Another tip is to replace the thrust pad at the bottom of the bearing housing with one machined from stainless steel, a local engineering firm should be able to help here.

Since this deck has no suspension, a wall shelf set into the thickest wall is a very big .improvement and reduces noise quite dramatically. Overhauled by one of the specialists, and used as described above with a Rega arm, this deck will shock anyone who thinks the Linn was the first real turntable. While not having the bass extension or grunt of a Garrard the bass is very tight and precise while detail in the mid and top is superb.
A very good example with no obvious wear or scratches can bring as much as 500 pounds.

 

[ReJoyce]

Re: Re: Anders

Originally posted by fox
* Michell Orbe/Mørch UP4/TCI Viper interconnect/Koetsu Onyx Platinum/Audio Note M2 Phono Preamp/2 x Neumann MC step-up transformers/Prototype STEALTH Monoblocks/Linn 'bariks/Sony DVD.

fox,

Have you considered any other step up device or other transformers? I tried a Dynavector PHA100 and wasn't totally convinced but there are plenty of other options.

Cheers

Jason

 

[ReJoyce]

Hi Paul,

Long time no post, hope all is well with you and yours. Thinking of another visit down south any time soon? I think my bass problems have been almost solved!

Originally posted by Paul Duerden
Hi Jason,

I know you know but I had better make it clear that I was not saying the 501 is the best turnatable in the world, just that if you want something engineered to that standard it is going to cost. I have no experience of the Simon York deck, but someone I trust reckons that this one is also engineered to an incredibly high standard. Again it is an expensive deck.

In the real world the three I would be interested in would be the Spacedeck, the Well Tempered and the Orbe.

I knew that you knew that I knew so no need to clarify ;->

The problem is that all of the solutions are expensive new and rare (good ones) second hand.

Cheers

Jason

 

[ReJoyce]

Originally posted by Paul Duerden
The 124 is a unique deck in that it is the only one I know which uses both a belt and an idler to drive the platter. Presumably the belt is there to decouple idler noise from the platter.

How does that work? Is there an idler driven flywheel that is belt connected to the plater to drive it?

Cheers

Jason

 

[Paul Duerden]

Jason,

The belt drives a pulley, which then drives the idler which is then engaged to drive the platter. I'm guessing that the 501 is so ott in the engineering that it doesn't require this kind of measure to be silent. And the 124 is bloody well engineered itself.

Fox,

Got there before you did dude, you spend everyone elses money on these Forums and spend your own on music. Neat huh?

 

[Andrew L Weekes]

Merlin, rgretably does not have any experience, hence he has no credibilty.

So when did you last directly compare an LP12 to a Thorens, Mick under the same conditions?

Your posts here and elsewhere are becoming laughable, as Jason has adequately highlighted you repeatedly do exactly what you criticise others for.

We also now have plenty of evidence to show us that your absolutist views can obviously not be trusted vis-a-vis your recent speaker experience.

You are making a mockery of yourself and I strongly urge you present your views in a manner far more likely to have the effect you desire.

Andy.

 

[Marco]

Re: Jason

Originally posted by fox

Ever had a HiFi where it just does what you want and you don't want to mess with it because one change might make it all unravel?

foxy, it's good you are in that position; as am I, but if one is able to identify an area of the system that can easily be improved with the minimum of upheaval, then sometimes it makes sense to do so. I'm not saying one should go looking for it; quite often the change is unplanned, as in my recent addition of the EA-2. JW put temptation my way, and I just couldn't resist

Besides, I had always known the weak link in my system was the 135s, so in reality, this upgrade was always likely to happen, it just happened sooner than I imagined. Hey, at least you can't accuse me of having underpowered amps anymore!

Marco.

 

[The Devil]

We'd all been telling you f'rages 'n'ages to ditch the 135s. Well done, good move.

All you need to do now is get some Mana'd isobariks, and move the kit into the living room.

 

[GPC]

Children Children!!!!

Christ alive,

Having read through most of this thread i am amazed at the amount of bitching and one upmanship going on amongst a group of people ( i am reluctant to use the term adults!) with a common interest.
Surely at the end of the day its horses for courses. If A sounds better to you than B, then stick with A, but dont slag off B as this may be preferred over A by someone else.

Surely your time and energy wold be better spent listening to your beloved deck, than on a forum beating each other up about who has the most balanced, less bounceiest, blah blah blah waffle waffle waffle deck!

IMHO
Greg

 

[Uncle Ants]

Greg,

Too right.

Michael (or any other moderator). How long before this silliness/bitchiness gets chucked into the kindergarten where it belongs?

 

[GrahamN]

I think this thread long ago ceased to have anything useful to say - and about page 6 became a mildly amusing piece of banter between long-standing sparring partners (and isn't ZG about the only forum - currently - from which none of them are banned).

Yes, 'kindergarten' is about right, but they're just having fun with their sandpit fight - so let them be!

 

[Marco]

Er, guys, I really don't have a clue what you're talking about. Personally, I'm trying to have a sensible discussion, and I feel the content of all my recent posts confirm this.

Cheers,
Marco.

 

[domfjbrown]

Tried to find the relevant post again but since this thread is longer than a ball of thread well, stuff it...

The reason Michells are more stable than Linns is because the deck HANGS from the springs on a Michell (as with the rubber bands on an SME) whilst the Linn sits on its springs; the Linn compresses them, the Michell stretches them. The Michell's centre of gravity is lower (afaik).

Even my lowly Rega P3 sounds better with the lid REMOVED - just up is no good as it's still dumping resonances into the plinth. Henryt's Orbe is safer to use without the HUUUUGE lid on it

Henryt's Orbe sounds fantastic; mind you, it'd sound better if your VTA was right Henry
:duck:
C'mon dude - it's an easy enough tweak to move that arm up 1.5 mm so the Frog is running level

LP12s are laughable devices; I mean, if you walk near one it jumps; they warble like f*** too if disturbed; a wall shelf is the only way you can begin to attempt to coax a stable sound out of them. Even my Rega's better than that on the floor - and it's a tenth of the price of a top flight LP12. Actually, LP12s are harder to cue up than a Michell as well so that's the springs comment I made above vindicated. Some LP12s do sound good though - I have heard a couple I could live with...

Idler decks have STORMING bass - even though the idler on my £5 Dual 1229 was a bit worn, the bass on something like "The sun goes down (Livin' it up)" by Level 42 was awesome. I wish that asshole ex of Lisa's hadn't thrown that deck at her 'cos I could be using it now instead of the rega - if I could butcher it to get a decent arm on it. I'd like to hear a 301/401/501 or a Thorens TD124 though

 

[Paul Ranson]

mean, if you walk near one it jumps;

Not true.

they warble like f*** too if disturbed;

Not true.

a wall shelf is the only way you can begin to attempt to coax a stable sound out of them.

Not true.

Even my Rega's better than that on the floor -

A Rega 3 is an adequate entry level turntable.

Actually, LP12s are harder to cue up than a Michell as well so that's the springs comment I made above vindicated.

LP12s are very easy to 'cue up'. I don't see how an Orbe can be 'easier' or 'harder'. You just pick the end of the arm up and place it where you want it.

Some LP12s do sound good though - I have heard a couple I could live with...

Any fit LP12 is better than any Rega P3.

Why do people persist in myth-mongering to justify their choices?

Paul

 

[merlin]

Originally posted by Marco
Er, guys, I really don't have a clue what you're talking about. Marco.

I know Marco, you and Mick together

Don't worry about it too much

 

[domfjbrown]

My Planar 3 is 1985 (I think) vintage - RB300/tungsten/"Rega" in black on the plinth). It pissed all over the LP12/Ekos/Arkiv/Lingo the guy who sold me the Rega had - not joking - it wasn't subtle. And that was with a worn K5 with the wrong VTA on the Rega! (OK so that was in the areas that matter to me - but that includes PRaT and tune).

So the Linn had less surface noise but it was a tune free zone... And it was even more marked on worn second hand vinyl. The real PITA with the Regas are they run 1% fast. Perhaps the guy's Linn was shot - but for ~£4k I'd expect a LOT better than that... He DID have Isobariks though - nice bass!

Henryt's LP12, and the one in Audio-T Reading, both warble like **** if you walk anywhere near them. Henry's current Michell doesn't...

God - hope you've got danger money on your cartridge, 'cos I found both Henryt's old Linn AND the Michell to be scary as hell to use - I NEVER approach a suspended deck WITHOUT first using an armlift - it's suicide otherwise. It's bad enough on my Planar 3....

I'm not sticking up for my Planar 3 - I need a much better deck one day but can't afford/justify it now. It won't be a Linn I get - sorry. If I could get one with no bass hump for under £500 that never needed to be reset up I'd be interested, but such a thing doesn't exist...

That said, still need to take Garyi up on his offer - would love to hear his system at some point