Turntable choices

Forgive me Devil, for not reading your post properly - I was toppled early by your emotional injection.

 

A Xerxes X will kick the ass off most of the decks I've heard mentioned here, for less money and in front of their birds.

Notts analog bah big stupid looking dumbass deck if you want a industrial piece of gear buy a factory.

SME, Seriously mental expense.

Kuzma well I mean "Kuzma" says it all really what a dumb name, I understand it's polish for Shite turntable.

Garrard yeah right they are clockwork aren't they?

Linn LP12 I won't even go there, suffice to say pistonic bounce is not a phrase I want in my life outside the bedroom.

All the acrylic decks are just ridiculous and cost a billion pounds or something.. Like BMWs they look good enough for those who know no better, never mind the sound just look at this.


Get a bloody Roksan. Like all the best stuff its from London and looks like a normal, unpretentious record player. And with the money you save you can buy, oh I don't know, maybe some records...

Not the Nimrod (or whatever it's called) though cos that's just Mo trying to make a few quid from a plastic deck.

Acrylic is what my bog seat is made of by the way..

 

Paul,

Your "cat" picture is great When I've considered a TT in the past one of the (several) reasons I rejected the idea was that having two cats in the house was not compatible with having a turntable. Your photo rather kills that argument.

I would however have to have a TT with a lid. And I'd probably not want to mount it on a wall bracket because said cats would be only too eager to use it as a spring board to jump elsewhere or as a convenient perch. I don't know how good having 5kg of cat jumping onto a TT would be for it

Michael.

 

>>>Like where?

Jeez Paul I don't carry a list of VPi or Clearaudio dealers around with me (Kevin Scott would play you the VPi stuff), sorry, but you are right I'm sure there are more Linn dealers making the LP12 the better turntable. For Well Tempered try Phonography, NAF, Adventures in HiFi, Audio Counsel there are others I'd suggest asking the distributor/manufacturer if interested. For almost all other decks Walrus seem to be a good bet. Just because I can buy a Philips TV in every town and just because they have been around for 110 years doesn't make them the best.


>>> Clearaudio and VPi definitely qualify as 'tweaky'. They're designed without any regard for long term usability, which is part of what engineering is all about.

Eh? Could you be more specific? I can't really see what the difference in "long term usability" between a VPi and an LP12 is. They both use a bearing, they both use a motor. Are you suggesting that the VPi (or clearaudio) have shorter bearing/Motor life?


>>>I'm inclined to dismiss any turntable that requires a clamp as impractical.

Blimey you are straw grasping! A clamp takes no time at all to use.


>>And any that don't supply a lid are really taking the piss, it's not like it need cost much.

That point is right, but is optional accepted? Maybe you could buy / make a cheaper one yourself?


>>> Not to mention that acrylic seems a really inappropriate material for an object that's intended to be handled.

Like an LP12 lid? ;-> and yes it is a silly fad.


Cheers

Jason

 

'Flattie'? Oh, how I despise those trite labels some people insist on using... besides, Merlin, if anything, I represent the 'round-earth' camp in this argument, as I'm against the 'pro-master tape' boys like yourself and favour instead the coloration that, although not 'real', can quite often make music more enjoyable to listen to. This is what I mean when I say master tape lacks an “emotive†element.

Merlin, I'm not (personally) 'messing' with anything to do with the recording. I take it you mean 'one' when writing 'you're'. I hear music with coloration caused by many factors in both the recording chain, and that introduced by my equipment and my environment; the latter I find enjoyable and factored into the equation; the former, I have no control over.

My interest in hi-fi goes as far as experimenting with different equipment or procedures that result in my better appreciation of music - my hi-fi system is only a means to an end; it's the music that ultimately matters most. To that end, I have achieved fulfilment. However, one always seeks to learn.

Marco.

 

As I believe the new Roksan radius is Jools Even the headshell

 

I'm against the 'pro-master tape' boys like yourself and favour instead the coloration that, although not 'real', can quite often make music more enjoyable to listen to. This is what I mean when I say master tape lacks an “emotive†element.

So you are in fact looking for a lo-fi. Fair enough.

 

Some of the scientifically minded folks can't trust their ears because of their lack of knowledge in hi-fi related matters, and in some cases, relevant experience.

Marco.

 

It's bad if the lid is off and there's a record playing.

(Everything survived, although both bass channels turned themselves off in disgust.)

Paul

 

All the music that exists on the recording exists on the master tape, all the emotion of the music is in the music itself, it's not something external to it. If you need something else on top of that, you clearly don't like your music collection very much.

My TT uses a clamp, and I clamp and unclamp it without stopping the deck in one easy action. I could live without a clamp, however, I'm not sure it makes a huge difference either way.

-- Ian

 

Some of the scientifically minded folks can't trust their ears because of their lack of knowledge in hi-fi related matters, and in some cases, relevant experience.

Deary me! To whom are you referring?

 

I was looking about for dealer lists, neither company seems to be able to supply one via their web sites for the UK. FWIW. Although I see that VPi have recently changed UK distributor.

I've no idea about motor or bearing life. I was thinking more in terms of dusting...

I don't like them. See 'tweaky'.

Now who's grasping at straws...

It's my experience of the cheap to replace LP12 lid that makes me doubt acrylic as a sensible component for the major parts of a turntable...

(FWIW I've always had a soft spot for the idea of the WTA, well before they existed I built an arm that dangled on fishing line to use on a stripped down Garrard SP25.)

Paul

 

I've got a soft spot for all turntables, lovely things in a sea of ugliness and grime, so they are.

 

Arf! Jason, you're a hoot...

Not at the moment, but I've used plenty in the past; including a few different LP12s. I'm no analogue novice.
Cheers,
Marco.

PS. I already mentioned the situation with the ECS amp in an earlier post. That remains the case.

 

Yes, obviously, but you will agree that all hi-fi equipment introduces a degree of coloration into the music that's not present on the master tape? This is fact, is it not? Therefore, all I'm saying is I accept this, and build a hi-fi system on that basis, tailoring the effect of the coloration to appeal to my particular taste through my choice of equipment.

Can we all go home now?

Marco.

 

Yes, its a bit silly that so many people who all love their vinyl are arguing about it!

Personally, I quite like LP12s. I think they make excellent second hand purchases too. An LP12 for say 400 quid would take some beating. The support that Linn dealers give is a credit to them too.

I think 2,000 is a little too much for a new one, Id rather see them around 1,100-1,300 including a 300 quid arm..

It will be interesting to find if your Mana wall shelves make the same difference to decks that you try that you hear when using it with your Ninja.

It will be particularly interesting (to me at least) if the Mana benefits high mass platter decks, which perhaps may not be affected by sympathetic resonance?

NB
Well done for not biting at some of the ''bait''. Im sure you know what I mean - it does credit to you not to rise to it IMO.

Chris

 

Couldn't have put it better myself; and some of that isn't on the master tape. That's twice in one day I'm agreeing with Alex! I think I need a lie down...

Alex, you'll hate me saying this, but your last bit suggests to me that you should at some point give Mana another try, as dropping the noise floor is essentially what it does.

Arguably, yes, but nothing else I've heard has the 'foot-tapping groove' of an LP12 (partnered by old-style olive Naim amps), even though it might do the 'hi-fi stuff' better. I apologise for the somewhat inaccurate language used to describe the effect I hear.

What can I say? Told ya!

Marco.

 

Originally posted by The Devil :

"The master tape must contain all of the musical information. If I had the option, I would rather listen to master tapes played on high-quality equipment than listen to anything else. But I have to make do with something very close to it.
The notion that accuracy to the master tape will produce a 'sterile' or 'analytical' or 'unmusical' result is so obviously incorrect as to require no further comment"


Sounds like you need a Pink Triangle Turntable......Fidelity to the master tape was what they were all about.

Paul.

 

A Few Questions

1- Can any turntable be deemed accurate given that it relies on dragging a diamond through a groove?

2- Is one approach to design the one to use in all applications, or will the rest of a given system influence the choice of deck?

3- How important is consistent engineering, given that there were a lot of complaints about the standard of build with both Pink Triangle and Roksan once they started selling in quantity? Obviously Linn and Michelle seemed to have this aspect a lot more right.

4- How does one turntable "groove" while another doesn't, given similar speed stability.

5- How do we define "groove" is my groove the same as yours?

6- Which one of the better heeled members of this board is going to buy me a Rockport so I can report on it?

7- Why the bloody hell does Murco not get his Thorens 124 up and running so he can add some hands on input to this discussion? It could surprise the arse off him done right and lead to endlessly fascinating discussions with the esteemed Mr. Parry as to which is really King Of The Vintage Decks.

 

Thank the Lord

Mr Duerden

Would you be so kind as to give Bub your honest opinion of the Garrard 501.

Paul has heard this TT so his views are valid.

Regards

Mick