Turntables...

Ah, the old ironic winky. I've seen it all before - very clever. It's almost certain to annoy me.

Did anyone say that the SME is "the last word"? No, I don't think they did.

 

Nope and they didnt need to.

 

So, er, why are you banging on about it? Anyone might think that you are insecure about having wasted, oops - sorry, invested £12,000 on a turntable which, despite having a technologically-advanced heated bearing, is still not the last word in vinyl replay. Mightn't they?

SM preferring the much cheaper SME is just jealousy, isn't it? Yes, we can be certain about that.

 

I see no point in continued debate with you.

All I will say is that if you feel the need to belittle someone’s experience just because they conflict with your own, and when it was made clear they were not being forced on anyone... Well, you can not be very secure in your own experience and views.

 

Bub,

BTW congrats on contemplating a SME sir .
I quite like the 30 it gets very near my cd reply.
Good choice James

 

Aw shucks, thank-you m'lud. <tugs forelock in abject gratitude>

 

Actually I paid nearer 7k inc arm and cartridge - which is close to what the sme 20 costs. I dont have insecurity as I checked out all the alternatives and didnt trust reviews.

Tenson has you bang to rights SM.

 

<shudders>

 

Wadia is just touting for Bubs outsourcing needs - take no notice.

 

The Brinkmann's still not quite the last word, though, is it?

The SME retails at about £5,600 with arm - considerably cheaper.

 

Care to explain?

 

Dont be a hater Mike, Tenson's a giver not a taker.

What about 100% Class A (and I'm not talking china white)?

 

Arhh Bio-degradeable plastic,
Thats were you couldn't be more wrong, for if its one thing James hates more than over zelous brinkmann salesman, its a vendor of signal transmission devices
Logic back fired there a touch nicky me old fruit !!!

 

Plus you need your akiva which doubtless costs more than £1400 new even with a discount. I paid £7.5k new for arm, cartridge and deck so they are almost exactly the same.

I havent checked every deck ever made and likely something better can always come along. But so far its the one best suited to me.

Wadia - the bubs they are a changin. Best get in and sell him 10ks worth of cable while the mood is on him

 

nerr nerr na nerr nerr.

 

I didn't see any debate Tenson. You stated that all the valve amps you had experienced had too much distortion, to which I replied factually if a little curtly.

I am 42 years old and have been listening to hifi for more than half of that period. I have owned four valve amps, auditioned in excess of ten more at home, and heard numerous others at shows and at friends. Some exhibit the distortion you refer to, whilst others from the likes of Atmasphere, Berning, McIntosh and CAT offer nothing but outstanding transparency.

The figures back this up too. Most of these amps exhibit less than 0.2% THD across the spectrum when run as the should be (ie well inside their power envelope) and if you can hear that level of 2nd Harmonic, you are a better man than most. When asked to run at levels approaching clipping, the distortion increases and indeed this might be what you refer to. But firstly, that is an example of poor system setup, not of a poor amplifier, and secondly, the distortion is rarely worse than that generated by your loudspeakers anyway at those levels.

We met once and you seem like a very nice guy Tenson. But you also seem very young, and as such, are unlikely to have an enormous level of experience when it come to listening to various valve amplifier topologies. Do correct me if I am wrong.

Of course none of the above makes my opinion on the strengths of a particular amplifier any more valid than yours. But it does enable me to state that your view of valve amplification outlined earlier is flakey to say the least.

 

One could also point out that, at 42, you're ears are well into their decline & not at all what they once were.

Perhaps this young blade Tenson can hear things you can't?


But as you say; the figures do back you up.

 

IMHO most people can hear .1% distortion, though the bottom line is weather YOU personally like what the valve amp does, and there are some very good ones out there wthout question.
Some of which even I like
I feel also it depends what you've brought up on too, like a lot of the TT boys (PFM squad et al), they have had a TT for nearly 20 years plus and most are not comtable with a cdp yet
Simpley because they are acustomed to a TT sound.
The same can be said for a long term owner of a cdp when trying out Vinyl. Niether one is wright or wrong, just how the said individual percives it.
This is true for Valves and Solid state IMO

 

I think the paragraphs below (taken from the provided link) covers the topic of valve amp distortion and transistor amp distortion in a fair and even manner - although the matter is only touched on lightly.

It would be untruthful to say that valve amps distort and transistor amps do not. In essence both items distort - just in different ways. Take your pick.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_amplifier

Class A single ended triode amplifiers (Known as "SET"s) have a characteristic distortion spectrum, a simple and monotonically decaying series of harmonics, dominated by modest levels of second harmonic distortion. Second harmonic distortion is musically equivalent to adding the same tone one octave higher to form a chord. In this case, the added tone is at a lower level (typically 5% or less at full power in a no-feedback amplifier) but the effect is to "fatten" the sound.

Transistor amplifiers are almost always class AB push pull, because for a given power, Class AB allows cheaper amplifiers, and push pull topology tends to cancel even order harmonic distortion products. The resulting distortion is therefore dominated by odd order harmonics, which to human sensibilities sound "harsh" etc
Transistor amplifiers made during the 1980s typically also had extremely high gain, but poor open loop linearity, and relied on large amounts of negative feedback (NFB). Some consider that NFB does not sound "natural" or "musical", due to errors in the way it reacts to transients. These errors also reveal themselves in very complex distortion spectra, that humans find "discordant".
In contrast, triode valves typically have only modest gain, and are extremely linear. This makes it possible to design very simple valve circuits that rely on this inherent open loop linearity and have little, or indeed no, NFB, and thus have very simple distortion spectra.

 

There is also a point of view out there WM that as one moves up the TT or CD paths the sound remarkably converges to a similar neutrality rather than the stereotypical and opposing sound of each that is left behind.