Why you can never 'win' with Mana

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Well. All sounds like excuses to me, I'm afraid!

But if Mana does really make things sound better, then how many "phases" (as I believe they are called) would Chris (the vicar) have to stand on in order to have a hope of winning Pop Idol?

And if you put a microwave oven on Mana, does it make the food "taste better"? :confused:
 
The original is always best

Originally posted by michaelab

I don't think anyone here who's heard it (apart from Tones) disputes that Mana does "something". It's just that not everyone likes that something and this is something the Mana crew can't seem to accept :rolleyes:
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I think it transcends that issue.

Michael, by way of an example, would you say you categorically disliked, say, Spaghetti Bolognaise, if you suspected you had never tasted the real thing as known by Italians?

The situation is similar with people who think they've heard what Mana actually does, when in reality, they haven't.

I would never challenge someone's perfectly reasonable opinion about Mana if I were certain they'd experienced the genuine thing.

It's as simple as that.

Marco.
 
Evangelical? I'll have you know I was once one of Mana's harshest critics... have you not read my legendary essays on the subject?
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Marco,

I'd be careful with that particular line of reasoning. It is generally accepted that born-again evangelists - those converted to the faith are actually worse than those born with their beliefs (if such a thing were possible.)

BTW, Monday is cool + no need to head for Birmingham afterwards. :)
 
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Re: The original is always best

Originally posted by Marco
I think it transcends that issue.

Michael, by way of an example, would you say you categorically disliked, say, Spaghetti Bolognaise, if you suspected you had never tasted the real thing as known by Italians?

The situation is similar with people who think they've heard what Mana actually does, when in reality, they haven't.

I would never challenge someone's perfectly reasonable opinion about Mana if I were certain they'd experienced the genuine thing.

It's as simple as that.

Marco.
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oh come on - that's a crock of shit.

erm...right...guess what colour i'm thinking of........brown? erherh....wrong!....green. Again.......blue?.......erherh.....no!..... red.......ad infinitum. do you like mana yet.....er....yes? bravo...right answer!!!whoooohooo.........
 
Agreed. These forums are a bit pointless, really aren't they? Having said that I've met some nice people, so maybe not totally pointless.

You can listen to a system on Mana, if you don't like it then it's the stand that's wrong, if you do then it's the gear that's good. Mana won't fix the midband brightness of CD players. And what about the room / mains / your state of mind. Difficult to really relax in someone else's house if you don't know them very well. Very hard to make critical remarks about someone's system, too. And so it goes on (and on).
 
Re: Re: The original is always best

Originally posted by cookiemonster

oh come on - that's a crock of shit.

erm...right...guess what colour i'm thinking of........brown? erherh....wrong!....green. Again.......blue?.......erherh.....no!..... red.......ad infinitum. do you like mana yet.....er....yes? bravo...right answer!!!whoooohooo.........
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If you say so. You sound like someone whose opinion can be relied on.

Marco.
 
U2:

Marco: I know that such-and-such is physically impossible

Someone else: It is physically possible

Marco: You are right
 
Re: The original is always best

Originally posted by Marco
The situation is similar with people who think they've heard what Mana actually does, when in reality, they haven't.

I would never challenge someone's perfectly reasonable opinion about Mana if I were certain they'd experienced the genuine thing.
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Your reasoning sounds dangerously close to: "if you've heard it and like it then you've heard the real thing. If you didn't like it then it wasn't the real thing." ie, refusing to accept that anyone might not like it.

I think cookie summed it up better: a croc of shit :D

Michael.
 
and the thread shall be repeated with increasing vehmence until it gets moved to the kindergarden...
cheers


julian
 
Steven << Hands-on comparisons are enjoyable. >> I think you should be saying that on a different forum.

Anyway, Mana makes a huge difference, nearly all of it positive. You can blindfold me and add ear plugs and I'll tell you whether there's Mana in the system or not. But please don't, it is boring.
 
Re: Re: The original is always best

Originally posted by michaelab

Your reasoning sounds dangerously close to: "if you've heard it and like it then you've heard the real thing. If you didn't like it then it wasn't the real thing." ie, refusing to accept that anyone might not like it.
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Michael, you obviously haven't understood my analogy in the way I meant it.

Not to worry.

Later,
Marco.
 
It goes something like this:

Mana-iac: Have you heard Mana?

Dissenter: yes

Mana-iac: Mind-blowing isn't it!

Dissenter: well, er, no. I hear what it does and it's good, but it's not for me.

Mana-iac: :devil: ... Are you deaf, stupid or both?

Dissenter: none of the above.

Mana-iac: :gatling:

Dissenter: steady on old chap! :mrtoy:

Mana-iac: Well, was it st up properly?

Dissenter: yes

Mana-iac: :bub: Did you hear your own kit on it?

Dissenter: yes

Mana-iac: Was it set up properly?

Dissenter: yes

Mana-iac: Did you hear it in your own listening room?

Dissenter: no, I really don't think I need to...

Mana-iac: I win! You didn't hear it in your own room. Yipee! :band:

Dissenter: :banghead:
 
I don't see why an ABX test using Mana wouldn't be doable. Just have the Mana rack side by side with the non Mana rack, and limit the comparison to a single component - say, the CD transport (or whatever component the Mana folk think will be most affected). It's easy enough to lift a component off one support and onto another right beside it. You could even do tests moving the whole system from one rack to another without *too* much extra time between listens.

And surely the way for Marco to demonstrate the effect of Mana is for him to go 'round to a Mana non-believer's house with a stack of Mana and set it up for them - then show them the difference. Alternatively, if Marco cannae be bothered, have one of the non-believers come to his house, and do the test there. Put Marco's components on cheapie Richer Sounds rack or something, listen to it for an hour or two, then stick it on the Mana and see what you see. It wouldn't be very scientific, but surely if the difference is obvious, the Mana unbeliever would be convinced that there exists a difference? And then he can state whether or not he likes the difference, and Marco will accept it?

Sigh...

Dunc
 
Quite. It's not exactly that difficult. I'd even say just have a normal-ish table next to Mana and use that. According to the Mana fans, it should be dead easy to tell but I think there is always the danger that they would fail and not hear any difference. It might make them a bit upset.

But, of course, if they do tell the difference they would be very happy and become 'King of Mana' or something. Maybe even have a little Mana-style crown made? But no spikes, of course. I think that would be nice.
 
Most good stands sound better than a table so you're going to have to blind test a Lak Table, Mana, Isoblue, QS Ref, Finite Element, Wilson Benesch, Hutter, Fraim, Base, Strata Base, Townshend, Loonytoon, blah, blah, sleep, snore.
 
Here we go round the mulberry bush, (again & again & again & again), what joy, ferrite is good, ferrite is great, my my, it must be Sat-ans :D making plans for his gate, will be black?, will it be red?, or now super chic, in that silvery thread.
Don't you just luv a couple of guys vai-ing for top angle iron worshiper of (This) week award, tune in for next week exciting episode of "Eeerrr Guv, can you ring my mana for me" :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by wadia-miester
Datty Boy I'll bite on this one :D As your a 'pro boy' ;) I take it most of you requipment is racked ? on big rigs stood in seperate control room?
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Why not send me a PM and tell me who you think I am. You've almost certainly got me confused with someone else...

However what I can state for sure, is that after application of 'Cromilin' constrained layer damping, (A croma-alloy material, with a annerobic bonding agent, that converts vibrations to heat, which is dissapated through the croma-alloy upper layer)
The sound does improve in a audio detectable way, further improvement can be made by use of Dynamatt or similar product.
It does have an effect Datty, theories about, but it does what it says on the tin. Wm
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So it uses a shear force? which means lateral movement, but how can the top and bottom shear relative to one another if the top isn't firmly held? [I'm not denying that adding mass will change how panels vibrate, but for that Blutak would work just as well..]

Let's suppose that there was vibration, how does that affect the TDA1541A ???

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/rise44.htm
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Which you would might have dismissed as a bullshit review if it had appeared in say HiFi+ perhaps?
 
Datty, I wouldn't use cromilin on the chip itself neither would I use blue tack (though I know people that do), the constrained damping would go on the internal panels themselves, as for the main cmos array's and dsp processing arena, I would use a hot glue gun and 'build up' small packets of glue in strategic places on the board if I were of a diy nature, or I could fix a 45mm stainless cylinder to the underside of the dac lid place a heat transfer compand on it and mount it directly onto the dac processing chipsets, with a corrisponding cylinder on the underside., this would then have a multi benefit, in that a serious reduction in not just board microphony & heat transfer but internal chip oscillations.
Now just so I now don't get confused, are we talking, internal resonant frequenices generated by the oscilaations of the chips, or we talking, board flexiations caused by outside vibrational forces ?
I can't speak for the philips chip, how the Xlinx & Motorala arrays, respond well to a restriction in internal structure vibrations.
Just small observation on Timpy & myselfs part. Wm

Datty, asked

Which you would might have dismissed as a bullshit review if it had appeared in say HiFi+ perhaps?

No not really, we use our ears not some paid Jurno's :)
 
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