Windbag is worse threat than Terrorists..

[Artikulat]

only a total reexamination of lifestyles and stresses.

How true. Binge drinking is a major problem in the UK and a growing one among young women who used to be the balancing influence for young male drinkers. Unfortunately the young girls now seem to be intent upon beating their male counterparts in the getting really whacked out drinking derby. It seems to be following the same attitude that is happening in the smoking 'scene'. Maybe the attention of the government/alcohol agencies should be to address this change in attitude of young women. I feel however it is part of a bigger malaise of society as a whole in the UK. There are no easy answers. Decadence or a return to more moderate behaviour?

 

[SCIDB]

bub in kindness, here you are displaying total ignorance.

Why. A number of things he has said makes sense.

just raising prices of things is no answer, and yet its pandied as a panacea.

No it is not branded about as a cure for everything. Many bodies, such as Alcohol concern and BMA, have said many other things need to be done as well. Raising prices is one thing that would slow and stop binge drinking.


The price of booze has gone down. You can buy more for your money. Pubs and bars have many promotions and deals such as happy hours to get the punters in. The facts are that people drink more when it's cheaper. They can drink loads more than they need to.

One of the worst examples were venues which charge an fee to get in and had a 'drink as much as you like policy'. In these places people did drink to excess. This has lead to a number of drink related illnesses and incidences plus a few deaths. This was due to very cheap booze.

If you read the original story on this thread, North Wales Police deputy chief Clive Wolfendale says this will reduce binge drinking in town & city centres. This is where alot of problems lie. It won't stop people drinking full stop but it will reduce it in the key areas.

just look at car ownership and petrol prices, prices are higher then ever, car use is higher than ever.

That is due to there being no alternatives. If public transport was more common and cheap, people would use it more.

you have to look, and I am sure you are aware of the wider implications of alcohol apart from thier medical effects on the liver and other systems/organs of the body.

But you have to look at them as these cost the country billions. Also anti social behaviour is hard to ignore and costs billions as well.

due to stresses of modern living,

A few drinks will relax you but too many will cause problems.

not enuff cash to do what you want,

Is drinking going to solve that? No.

the beckham media thing seeing loads of cash around,

I don't buy into that one. Are you saying people are driven to drink because there are better off people than themselves. If so, they shouldn't be drinking.

all stresses and wanting more,

People who drink loads can become alcoholics. Not a good thing.

together with obesity,

Most people can get rid of obesity very easy. Better diet and more exercise. Stopping of drinking will reduce this.

cravings,

We all can have cravings but help can reduce them.

something is affecting people,

People do turn to the bottle for comfort but this usually solve nothing.

and that explains the alcohol, drug, food and other cravings, overcrowding, time, its all interrelated.

Other things can explain these as well and drink is not the solution.

pricing will not stop it, such things are ridiculous modern approaches by idiot desk people who give the impression they know how to do something but in the end do it simply to get money from jo public and its an easy justification, tbh i am fed up of hearing this garbage from govt. about pricing things out.hasn't stopped car use. won't stop anything else...so their argument is rubbish.

Why is it rubbish?

The arguments come from many bodies who know about the problems. The price rises are to reduce binge drinking. It's to stop people forcing lots of booze down into their bodies in a short period of time.

This and other measures suggested haven't come from the govt. office. But from people like the BMA and Alcohol Concern. The Govt. has failed to act on many of the suggestions.

I suggest you look at the Alcohol Concern site for loads of info from many sources on the effect, solutions and costs of alcohol.

http://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/servlets/wrapper/knowledgebase.jsp

only a total reexamination of lifestyles and stresses. I drink responsibly, 7 units max a week, sometimes half that.

I agree but if people are not prepared to look at their lifestyles then action needs to be taken.

SCIDB

 

[The Devil]

bub in kindness, here you are displaying total ignorance.

Indeed. The fact that I am a senior healthcare professional whose workload is largely driven by alcohol has led me to try to find out as little as possible about this subject.

If the price of biscuits suddenly trebled, people would eat fewer biscuits.

 

[Joe]

Many bodies, such as Alcohol concern and BMA, have said many other things need to be done as well. Raising prices is one thing that would slow and stop binge drinking.

And the fact that it is not done says much about the fact that all political parties receive large dollops of funding from the booze industry. The government claims it is waging a 'war on drugs' but seems to have a blind spot regarding one of the more dangerous ones out there.

 

[The Devil]

The reason why the UK government won't grasp the nettle is threefold:

1. There is an influential drinks industry lobby.

2. It would be unpopular with the majority of the electorate, many of whom already drink too much alcohol, as evidenced by the intense whingeing seen here.

3. They are a bunch of nancy-boys with no balls.

Several pages ago.

 

[Joe]

Several pages ago.

Good Lord, you don't expect me to read entire threads, do you?

However, I'm pleased to see that there's at least one sensible person posting here besides my goodself.

 

[Joe]

I feel however it is part of a bigger malaise of society as a whole in the UK. There are no easy answers. Decadence or a return to more moderate behaviour?

There is a third option; an economic slump so severe that it removes most peoples' disposable income at a stroke (no pun intended). It is no coincidence that we were at our healthiest as a nation during the period of rationing and free vitamins post-WW2.

 

[kennyk]

Indeed. The fact that I am a senior healthcare professional whose workload is largely driven by alcohol has led me to try to find out as little as possible about this subject.

It certainly seems to make you think that you know how to police the streets better.

If the price of biscuits suddenly trebled, people would eat fewer biscuits.

this is obviously an obfuscation. if the price of biscuits suddenly trebled, people would steal more biscuits.


the object, for the police at any rate must surely be to prevent trouble. it is bad enough that teenagers are attacking fire crews etc through apparent boredom, without adding to that problem.

let's assume that your hair-brained idea has come to fruition. lots of bored and frustrated people of a weekend because they cannot afford to go to the pub. so they will hang around in groups much the same as they did in the pub, only outside, terrorising people.

 

[Joe]

this is obviously an obfuscation. if the price of biscuits suddenly trebled, people would steal more biscuits.

What makes you think that?

 

[The Devil]

kenny, you are great at trying to wind me up, I guess a reaction validates you in some way.

I've said nothing about policing the streets anywhere in my posts. A senior policeman knows, however, and it was him who I quoted.

The rest of your post's opinions on what might happen fall into the "tabloid hysteria" type, as popularised on this forum.

 

[leonard smalls]

If the price of biscuits suddenly trebled, people would eat fewer biscuits.

That's fine by me, I don't really like biscuits.
Apart from those Byrony Bay cookies, which are, along with gin, the road to ruin. I'd pay treble for them (even though they're already about quadruple the price of ordinary biccies..).
In fact they're too good to be a biscuit, I'd class them as more of a cake..

 

[mr cat]

In fact they're too good to be a biscuit, I'd class them as more of a cake..

jaffa cakes, now are they biscuits, or cakes..? - they're yummy tho

 

[The Devil]

Jaffa cakes are cakes, there was a court case about that issue. Food of the Gods. I'd be upset if they trebled in price, but fortunately this is unlikely because of exemplary self-control by Jaffa cake eaters.

 

[mr cat]

yeah, they are so moreish...!

 

[PBirkett]

There is a third option; an economic slump so severe that it removes most peoples' disposable income at a stroke (no pun intended). It is no coincidence that we were at our healthiest as a nation during the period of rationing and free vitamins post-WW2.

I dont think many people would be keen on living in a communist state, especially the richer people

 

[Heavymental]

After spending 3 weeks in France and getting back last week I despair of this country and its drinking culture. 3 weeks around France we witnessed nothing that would make you feel wary. No agressiveness, no raised voices...in short nothing that would class as antisocial. Even the kids hanging around on bikes in town centres said 'Bonjour' as they cycled past. Without wishing to sound like an old woman but you'd get a lot worse in a British town centre. On the first day back we go to the cinema in Bath and its full of nobheads shouting and dicking about. The next day we get home to pembrokeshire and some pissheads coming out of the pub are threating to stab each other in the street. I felt like shooting the lot of them. This country is fkin full of dickheads. Note that this was Bath and Pembrokeshire. Hardly nasty parts of Britain. We seem to think of it as normal for our towns to feel like they've been invaded by vikings every night.
This is just one aspect of France that impressed me, I could go on about what else is great about that country. But as a taster...get this....the town centres haven't been overrun by chain stores! No Clinton Cards, no Starbucks, no Claires Accessories. Its like another world! And no Chavs...woohoo!
Ok...I know France has its problems but they're not as basic as every second citizen being a complete twat.
The attitudes and culture have got to change but they're not going to anytime soon so I'm either moving country or moving even further into the sticks. I've had my fill of the chavs and dckheads in Britain.
It takes a trip to somewhere with a nice culture and attitude to make you realise whats wrong with this place.

 

[PeteH]

just look at car ownership and petrol prices, prices are higher then ever, car use is higher than ever.

From which you conclude that the higher the prices go the higher car use will go? If prices weren't "higher than ever" then car use would be even higher. If OTOH prices were higher still then car use would be reduced.

If you raise the price of something, people are less likely to pay for it. This is fundamentally how prices work.

 

[kennyk]

kenny, you are great at trying to wind me up, I guess a reaction validates you in some way.

I've said nothing about policing the streets anywhere in my posts. A senior policeman knows, however, and it was him who I quoted.

The rest of your post's opinions on what might happen fall into the "tabloid hysteria" type, as popularised on this forum.

Not trying to wind you up. No need. others are better at it than me. Since the original post was about a senior Policeman's opinion, I think that the argument is valid. If you want to thow your toys out of the pram about it then that is your right. However I take exception to your pomposity.

I still think that you are wrong about increasing the price of alcohol as being the solution to the problem of trouble in city centres. All it takes is one or two drinks to lower inhibitions and before you know it trouble can still flare up before people are totally drunk.

As evidenced on the continent, the price of alcohol is considerably lower and yet there is not the same element of trouble. Why is this? Or will you just ignore this fact again and again and again as it disproves your argument?

By driving up the price people will take more damaging alternatives, such as cheap imported and contaminated vodka or meths. As a "senior healthcare professional" you will no doubt be aware of the recent decision to remove soap from some hospital / health centre toilets because the drunks and alcoholics are trying to drink it? Surely this must be of some concern to you?

So take your ridiiculous example again, if the price of biscuits trebled, more people would steal them and people would eat more of the alternatives, such as crisps, instead.

Just because people are less willing to pay for something does not mean that they won't do it. all it will do is force them to be creative in their means of obtaining the item, or go in search of an alternative.

I would suggest that you go to the Barras of a Saturday or Sunday morning and take a look at how the other half live. knocked off tobacco and booze. very cheap. would you drink a bottle of vodka tha's cheaper than supermarket own brand and of dubious origin? but you can bet that some "jakey bam frae up the scheme" on benefit will. By increasing the price of the legitimate stuff all that will happen is that less people can afford it and they look for cheaper alternatives, regardless of quality.

It's human nature.

 

[The Devil]

Not trying to wind you up. No need. others are better at it than me. Since the original post was about a senior Policeman's opinion, I think that the argument is valid. If you want to thow your toys out of the pram about it then that is your right. However I take exception to your pomposity.

I still think that you are wrong about increasing the price of alcohol as being the solution to the problem of trouble in city centres. All it takes is one or two drinks to lower inhibitions and before you know it trouble can still flare up before people are totally drunk.

As evidenced on the continent, the price of alcohol is considerably lower and yet there is not the same element of trouble. Why is this? Or will you just ignore this fact again and again and again as it disproves your argument?

By driving up the price people will take more damaging alternatives, such as cheap imported and contaminated vodka or meths. As a "senior healthcare professional" you will no doubt be aware of the recent decision to remove soap from some hospital / health centre toilets because the drunks and alcoholics are trying to drink it? Surely this must be of some concern to you?

So take your ridiiculous example again, if the price of biscuits trebled, more people would steal them and people would eat more of the alternatives, such as crisps, instead.

Just because people are less willing to pay for something does not mean that they won't do it. all it will do is force them to be creative in their means of obtaining the item, or go in search of an alternative.

I would suggest that you go to the Barras of a Saturday or Sunday morning and take a look at how the other half live. knocked off tobacco and booze. very cheap. would you drink a bottle of vodka tha's cheaper than supermarket own brand and of dubious origin? but you can bet that some "jakey bam frae up the scheme" on benefit will. By increasing the price of the legitimate stuff all that will happen is that less people can afford it and they look for cheaper alternatives, regardless of quality.

It's human nature.

I really can't be bothered to argue any more. Zerogain seems to have been taken over by Tabloid readers who will argue that black is white until they are blue in the face.

 

[kennyk]

I really can't be bothered to argue any more. Zerogain seems to have been taken over by Tabloid readers who will argue that black is white until they are blue in the face.

oh diddums.