Windbag is worse threat than Terrorists..

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBirkett
Just like theres no evidence to suggest if they put the price up, they'll drink less.

There is plenty of evidence like the Devil has said. Think about it. As Julian has pointed out, booze is much cheaper now in real terms that it's ever been. We have seen the rise in happy hours, drinks offers and strong booze. This has given an increase in drinking. Binge drinking has become very popular.

To totally tackle the problems, a price increase is only one step. It need to be done with other measures such as education, changing cultural outlook to boozing and rehab for people who are more dependant on booze.

The government has stayed away from big price increases but hasn't done enough other measures to keep booze problem in check.

The links show some pointers of prices of booze and consumption.

http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~sjp22/addiction/tat.htm#4

http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/Alcoholyoungpeople

http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/poliniticombatbindrink

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3533315.stm

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/01/20542/50232


SCIDB

 

I'm not an alcoholic, simply because I can stop whenever I want. 2 bottles of wine and a binge on a weekend is probably only slightly over the weekly limit anyway.

Yes its scary reading. I could scare myself about many things, but I choose not to.

 

As a fairly liberal individual I'm quite happy for people to do whatever they like, as long as it doesn't inconvenience or injure anyone else and as long as they're able to make an informed decision concerning any risks involved. Obviously people with actual alcohol dependence may need help (this comes under "able to make an informed decision") and there's the very pertinent argument about the strain put on the healthcare system (this comes under "inconveniencing anyone else"), but in principle I'm not especially interested in protecting people from themselves, I'm just arguing from the public order point of view. It was Barcelona that was mentioned earlier in the thread IIRC but you could substitute any number of places in mainland Europe - many city centres outside the UK mysteriously manage to be pleasant, welcoming, unthreatening and civilised places on Friday and Saturday night, and personally I think it would be nice if we could manage to achieve that here too.

And yes, I'm aware that there are some people who can go out for a skinful and not make a nuisance of themselves - but as we've discussed earlier in the thread, the problem for society at large is that there are also an awful lot of people who can't.

FWIW the medically advised safe limit is AFAIK still 21 units per week for men, with a maximum of 4 units in any one day. A 750ml bottle of wine at 12% ABV would be 90ml alcohol or 9 units, so two bottles of wine plus 6 pints (@ 5% ABV) would be about 35 units.

 

Yes, I'd agree to be honest. I dont think it will ever happen. Its always been a british thing to get legless.

So punish them. Lock em up, maybe give people "licences" to drink. Everyone gets one. Get into trouble, get points, fines, banned just like in driving. If they incorporated a system whereby you have to present your license to get served, then it could be manageable. However, its unlikely as its expensive, and would have to be done quickly or it'd become too much of a hassle.

My mistake - I thought it was 28... but anyway, a lot of people in my family, and friends of family have all drank from a young age, and usually to excess, and they are still here. At 26, I'd like to think I'm not going to drop dead from liver failure just yet, and if I'm anything like my dad, i'll end up cutting back as i get older anyway.

 

Hi Paul,

No. It's not that you shouldn't have fun or have a drink. I have no problems with you being drunk even. It's more to do with being responsible for your own actions..The actions of drink related crimes and incidences effect alot of people and cost a lot of money.

It is true that you may see or notice very little crime or incidence but alot goes on and a lot doesn't get on the crime figures. Anti social behaviour is a big concern.

There is, for example an increase of under age drinking. It these young folk don't know when to stop, they will cause themselves and society problems.

I am a city centre regular, many through djing. I have seen many sites. I've seen it all. I've seen people having a drink and laugh, which is the majority of people on the whole. But I've seen a small minority cause hassle, crime, damage and incident which does mount up in cost.


Why are people worried? This small minority causes £7.3 billion in policing, prevention services, processing offenders through the justice system and human cost to the victims. Add to this around £6 billion for lost days at week, unemployment, premature death and cost to the health service. Also ad the personal misery it can cause. So if this minority who cause this hassle increases, so will the cost to society.


A few of my personal dealings with drink related crime & incident have included stopping fights, helping with first aid on people who have been glassed, putting people in the recovery postion as they lay sparked out due to drink, catching a vandal causing damage and giving him a citizens arrest ansd load more.


I have also had over £1000 pounds worth of damage to my cars over the years. This has included bricks through the windows, dents in the bonnet, key scraped on the paintwork, windscreen wipers broken, ariels broken and wind mirrors booted.


The last time my wing mirror got booted, the bloke who did it was caught red handed on cctv. As he walked away the police caught up with him and arrested the sod. He was a first offender in a very good job. He was model citizen normally. The power of booze.


As for nanny state, we have a number of people we can not or will not act responsible. This becomes a problem if their actions spoil it for others and cause injury, damage and inconvenience. If this becomes a regular problem then society has to do something about or it becomes worst.

SCIDB

 

Dean, sorry to hear about the things thats happenned in the past with your car, and if you dont mind me saying so, you dont appear to have too much luck with them!

To be honest, that sucks what happened to your car. That would really annoy me. However, I bet the guy just got a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again? They should get hit hard in the pocket for that - anyone who messes with a mans car is a twat in my book. Model citizen? Find that hard to believe really - i know people who have jobs and may appear to the uninitiated "model citizens", but they aren't really.

Still I take your points, I just dont agree pricing everyone out of the market is really going to help overall. I still believe scum will be scum, and the fact they can walk around scot free means they clearly believe (with good reason) that they can get away with it.

Unfortunatley, the UK seems to have a rather high scum quotient...

 

I'm paid to be right, guys, please try to remember that.

The reason why the UK government won't grasp the nettle is threefold:

1. There is an influential drinks industry lobby.

2. It would be unpopular with the majority of the electorate, many of whom already drink too much alcohol, as evidenced by the intense whingeing seen here.

3. They are a bunch of nancy-boys with no balls.

 

Alcohol in the UK is amongst the most expensive in Europe already.

On the continent there does not seem to be the same level of problem, despite the lower cost, except when there's english tourists there.

by increasing the price to a high level would have far reaching consequences not only in the brewing industry.
All the ancillary industries would also be affected, pub entertainment like musicians, DJs etc.

then there's the tourism industry which could be affected by tourists going to other destinations where they can afford an evening out without having to get a second mortgage.

so there could be a loss of jobs in brewing, pubs, tourism. We've little industry left as it is, and even call centres are being farmed out to India.

a massive increase in the price of a pint will only shift the problem elsewhere. if you make something more difficult to get people will want it more, it's human nature.

I think there are more effective long term solutions to the problem. starting with getting rid of the stupid alcopops / super strong bottled beers in late night clubs. we used to call it "loopy juice" in the club I worked in.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to hold the offenders for 24hrs in a cell and show them the health effects of their excessive alcohol consumption first hand.

 

I take it you've read the links?

 

Bub, you're resembling Mick Parry more with each passing day.

 

Knowing that you are right is a nice feeling, I must admit!

I am always right. This is because I know the score, and think arguments through before starting out.

 

I strive to be like you...

edit - I used to adminisistrate the NHS e-mail system, and you lot were some of the worst users i have ever encountered...

 

You should. Would save a lot of bandwidth if we could be spared your ill-informed musings.

 

I though you lot worked about 70 hours per week..? that and all the time you spend on here....blimey!

 

No, I don't work 70 hrs a week, you thought wrong, yet again. Anything useful, or are you just going to fill this thread with your customary personal jibes?

 

so was the "expert" witness who was always right and put the cot-death mothers behind bars.

I'm sure Shipman knew he was always right as well.

 

I think you might find that the cot-death person was, in fact, wrong, and Shipman was sick. Are you attempting to impugn my professional reputation, in public?

 

just my customary personal jibes...I like to see people bite back, you see...

so, you must be on annual leave then..?

I'm not surprised the NHS is in such a state it is...sigh...

 

Kennyk,

Bit off line there imo.

James is a specialist and as such will know an awful lot more about his area of interest than any of us, unless you happen to be a medical consultant?

 

The NHS is underfunded. This is an 'admin' morning, and I've finished all the paperwork, not that it's any of your business.