Windbag is worse threat than Terrorists..

Well all I know is that London has gotten a lot worse over the last 10-15 years. I won't go in to the centre on a Fri/Sat night now for the amount of completely pissed and legless people around. Ok true the vast majority are still well behaved but it only takes that 2-5% to ruin your evening.


The funniest thing I heard on this whole 24 licensing issue was some government minister saying that they wanted to give the UK a "continental" style drinking culture. I don't believe the guy has ever gone to Europe. In most parts of Europe, (except maybe eastern), people don't drink that much and when they do it is often with food. I went to valencia recently and we took a walk down the beach at around 11pm on a Saturday and the place was packed. I'm talking 4-5 miles of coastline with the streets FULL of people like oxford street on a saturday. Must have been a good couple of hundred thousand people. With FAMILIES !! I didn't see a single obviously drunk person, yet there were still loads of groups of girls, boys, men and women around as well as families. I was so impressed on the total lack of drink induced bad atmosphere that I even remarked on it to the people I was with. Try walking down oxford street at 11pm on a Saturday night and count the number of sober people you see!!

Different world !!


GTM
 
The Devil said:
You are completely wrong. As usual.

I suggest an eight-hour shift in A&E, Friday night 10pm to 6am.
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No you have missed the point. If you don't want bother, go out from Sunday to Thursday.

I don't see the price any different on a Sunday lunchtime - so where is the fighting on Sunday? Which is the parameter, day of the week or price?

I thought you medics were hot on empirical science?
 
GTM said:
I didn't see a single obviously drunk person, yet there were still loads of groups of girls, boys, men and women around as well as families. I was so impressed on the total lack of drink induced bad atmosphere that I even remarked on it to the people I was with. Try walking down oxford street at 11pm on a Saturday night and count the number of sober people you see!!

Different world !!
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Indeed what a different world. The problem is Britain is full of alcoholics and asking them to spend a night it A&E would do nothing either. They are beyond help so might just let nature takes it course and let them die from alcohol or drugs if they are really that stupid.
 
The problem we have in Britain with drink, imho, is that too many people aren't discriminating enough in what they choose to imbibe..
It doesn't surprise me when someone drinks a large amount of, say AfterShock,Wife Beater (i.e. Stella) and vodka and red bull wants a bit of a punch up.
I'd be much more surprised if a person who habitually drinks decent wine, or bitter, goes looking for a fight...
It seems to me that if you enjoy, and seek out, fine wines and beers you're more likely to be a social, as opposed to anti-social drinker.
 
I am not sure about London but at least Manchester and Brighton have seperate areas, so you get streets with all the commercial bars on like Wetherspoons, Yates and then the commercial chain clubs. This is the areas to avoid. Then you have the rest of the city centre with localy owned pubs and clubs, these areas don't seem to get any trouble.

Manchester city centre is full of police on a saturday night, I am assuming they do a very good job of stopping any trouble.

I personaly think the answer is to punish the people that commit the crimes rather than punish the vast majority of people who behave them selves and don't get too drunk.

I drink 8 pints in about 8 hours, it gets me drunk but not so that I can't walk straight it just means I won't be able to drive :D. This £7 a pint thing won't solve a damn thing.
 
leonard smalls said:
The problem we have in Britain with drink, imho, is that too many people aren't discriminating enough in what they choose to imbibe..
It doesn't surprise me when someone drinks a large amount of, say AfterShock,Wife Beater (i.e. Stella) and vodka and red bull wants a bit of a punch up.
I'd be much more surprised if a person who habitually drinks decent wine, or bitter, goes looking for a fight...
It seems to me that if you enjoy, and seek out, fine wines and beers you're more likely to be a social, as opposed to anti-social drinker.
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I tend to drink cider now but some times beer, I used to drink aftershock when I was younger but really they only have one purpose to make you sick and damage your liver, I think they should be made ilegal.

Clubs and pubs also need to have a lot more responsibility at the moment its stupid, lets get our customers totally wasted then chuck the out on the streets. However 95% of the people who leave the clubs will be perfectly well behaved. Its the 5% which create the problems.
 
I don't think it's about alcohol consumption vs. price necessarily..
After all, a pint of Stella, or an aftershock cost more than a pint of Wye Valley Butty Bach in my local.
I think it's about the reasons why people drink.
I drink in moderation (usually!) in what I would have called a "poncey way" when I was younger - frinstance I've been known to drive to Swansea (!) to get a couple of cases of Mount Adam "The Red", because it's one of the best (and it was £12 off a bottle). When you drink something like that, it's for the taste, and usually with food - i.e. in the continental way.
Not quite the same as pouring pints of mixed industrial alcohol down your neck in Yates' Wine Lodge on Wind Street!

And since when is someone's opinion "garbage"? Surely some sort of rebuttal involving reasoning would have been more suitable?
 
I dirnk becuase it makes me more tolerent and relaxes me, there is nothing like those great drunken conversations. I always know where my limit is though and even when I am celebrating I don't go over it.
 
wolfgang said:
The problem is Britain is full of alcoholics
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I wouldnt say that, bit of a blatant exagerration. Yes I am young. Yes I go out every weekend. Yes I get very drunk. ;)

However, no, I dont start on anyone, cause trouble, maybe except a desperate piss down an alleyway. My actions effect nobody. There is a small minority of people who would act on the effect of drink, but those people are often scum anyway, and if they weren't drunk, they would be on coke or speed and would be just as, if not more aggressive than they would on the beer.

People like you simply want everyone else to do as you do, to stay in the house and be bored. For me I really look forward to my nights of escaping from my mind, knowing it will affect nobody.

My point is, make £7 a pint and see if there *really* is less crime, and yes I am talking about all crime, I mean, if they cant afford the drink, then they will do something else to relieve the boredom. :rolleyes:
 
think it's about the reasons why people drink.
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Hit the nail right on the head there, why do these people go out just to get dekcuf out their brains, start fights etc. what's the point, what they trying to prove, apart from they can't hold there drink.
Personally give me a nice local privately owned (ie not a dam chain) pub with locals, good beer and ales, good up-to-date jukebox (ie no Evlis or Beatles!) makes for a top night in my book, you can keep your Nightclubs, Matrix, W(hore)arehouse etc, the music might be good, but the sound systems are always shite, and only idiiots and drunks/druggies go there, not my scene at all, again I avoid town, not a place I like to be on a Fri/Sat night. Too many drunk people about, I don't like large crowds, the most I can stand is about 300-400 in the art centre and that about my limit.
 
i find alcohol to be a more obnoxious drug than e or other party drugs. not from a use perspective but from being sober and having to deal with those (ab)using the substances. when i'm arround drunks there is always an edge to the atmosphere that things could turn unpredictable and nasty. when i'm arround people on e all you have to watch out for is random strangers hugging you. i'm not condoning the use of either drug and indeed don;t use either, either (if you see what i mean) i'm just saying that given the choice between a club / pub full of drunks or one full of 'e' users i know which one i'd go for.
i went out last thursday to a club where little alcohol is consumed and there was no trouble at chucking out time. at the other end of bedford high street where all the big extended hours pubs are there were 20+ police, drunken idiots stumbling across the road and an air of malice. sorry this speaks volumes to me.
cheers

julian
 
GTM said:
The funniest thing I heard on this whole 24 licensing issue was some government minister saying that they wanted to give the UK a "continental" style drinking culture. I don't believe the guy has ever gone to Europe. In most parts of Europe, (except maybe eastern), people don't drink that much and when they do it is often with food...I'm talking 4-5 miles of coastline with the streets FULL of people like oxford street on a saturday. With FAMILIES !!
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Have I missed the "funniest" part? I think that's perhaps exactly what the minister was getting at. A "continental style drinking culture" would be A Very Good Thing in my book, at least speaking from experience of the parts of the continent I've visited.

Graham C said:
No you have missed the point. If you don't want bother, go out from Sunday to Thursday.

I don't see the price any different on a Sunday lunchtime - so where is the fighting on Sunday? Which is the parameter, day of the week or price?

I thought you medics were hot on empirical science?
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With respect, you're the only one who has introduced a second parameter. Of course price isn't the only factor - in cafes in Rome you can get a litre of house wine for less than the price a pint of beer in a pub in London, yet you'll see very few drunken yobs staggering around shouting and urinating, and Prague's famously cheap beer usually only gives rise to an ugly atmosphere when English stag parties are around.

The fact remains that in all of these places the amount of alcohol consumed would certainly go down across the board if the prices were tripled, whether you're looking at Friday night or Sunday afternoon. I don't think it would really constitute a proportionate response to the issue, though it'd at least be faster and easier than changing the perception (particularly popular in the UK) that drinking up to or beyond the point where you lose your faculties is a prerequisite for not "being bored".

ISTM that in several mainland Europe countries it's very expensive to drink alcohol in bars but very cheap to buy it in supermarkets and the like. I'm sure it won't happen, but perhaps that would offer a way to placate everyone - bump up duties on pubs a bit and at the same time reduce it on off-licenses, so as to move heavy drinkers out of city centres and into the comfort of their own or their friends' homes.
 
amazingtrade said:
Manchester city centre is full of police on a saturday night, I am assuming they do a very good job of stopping any trouble.
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If our cities are full of fun loving sensible alcoholics then why are there a need to stationed so many police on the street every week then?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by amazingtrade
And for those who think there is a massive problem I suggest you turn the TV off and actually check out the city centres at 3:00am because I can find none of this stuff they mention on the TV.

I may sound harsh but thats just my experience I think the media are just making a huge deal out of nothing.


The Devil said:
You are completely wrong. As usual.

I suggest an eight-hour shift in A&E, Friday night 10pm to 6am.
Click to expand...

I will the Devil on this point. A&Es over the past number of years have been full of people who have suffered the effects of or from the effects of alcohol. People who have been the victims of drunken fights, people who have drunk to much, people who have been attacked or glassed by drunks etc.

My mum used to work at the local hospital, which has the A&E for the city. She was an auxilary nurse on the geriatric ward. It wasn't uncommon for her to work on A&E at the weekends due the increase in numbers of people. Quite a number of these weredue to alcohol related events.

She told me many stories of some of the sights and cases she helped to deal with. Add to this the threats violence that the staff have to put up with, it's a not very nice place to work.

I have been a Dj in clubs, pubs, bars and student unions for 16 years. I have seen many closing times over the years. I have seen many sights of drunken behaviour. I have seen the funny sides and seen the bad sides.

I've seen people passing out for drinking too much. I've seen people soil themselves because they drunk too much. I've seen people get a good kicking for no reason. I've seen cars get vandelised. I've people get glassed. I've seen noses get broken with fists. I've seen people standing in front of an ambulance, stopping them getting through. Plus many more sights.

I'm sorry AT but your experience is very limited to how bad the problem can be.

SCIDB
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by amazingtrade
Manchester city centre is full of police on a saturday night, I am assuming they do a very good job of stopping any trouble.


wolfgang said:
If our cities are full of fun loving sensible alcoholics then why are there a need to stationed so many police on the street every week then?
Click to expand...


AT,

Ask yourself why the city centre in Manchester is full of police? It's due to the crime and anti social behaviour rate. Manchester has one of the highest crime rates in Britain.

It is true that the recent moves in city policing has been more effective but they had to do something because things got quite bad.

SCIDB
 
SCIDB said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by amazingtrade
Manchester city centre is full of police on a saturday night, I am assuming they do a very good job of stopping any trouble.





AT,

Ask yourself why the city centre in Manchester is full of police? It's due to the crime and anti social behaviour rate. Manchester has one of the highest crime rates in Britain.

It is true that the recent moves in city policing has been more effective but they had to do something because things got quite bad.

SCIDB
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If that was the case (I.e the Hacienda etc) then it was before my time. I am not saying there isn't a need for police, but its still only the minority that create the problems, so I don't see why 98% of people should have to pay £7 a pint just becuase 2% will smash up car windows after a few pints of stella.

I think the answer is much tougher punishment on those that comment crimes while under the influence of alchohol.

There are also lots of rough clubs in Manchester but luckily as they are so many places the rough places are a doddle to avoid. I think its probably fair to say that the commercial chain bars seem to create the most problems.

I will admit the roughest pub near me (my local area) is Wetherspoons where the drinks are cheap but its not rough in the sense that you might get beaten up its just very rowdy and smokey where as the more localy owned bars tend to be a bit more pricey and exclusive. So I actually like Wetherspoon's being cheap becuase it stops these people venturing into the better bars it keeps them all in one place. Most the bars near me even the ones that turn into pre clubs at weekends have no bouncers there just isn't the need.

I am against my wetherspoons wanting a late licence simply becuase I know all the scallies drink there and I dread to think what they would be like at 1:00am. The police however know its a trouble spot so they might refuse.

PS There are plenty of decent wetherspoons its just the one near me isn't as its the cheapest pub in all of South Manchester.

What I am saying is I admit there is a problem but its so easy to avoid, and if they get injuries as a result of drink then charge them for it at A&E fine them for being drunk etc. Don't make the decent members of public who have never broken the law while drunk pay for it.
 
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It's british culture to drink to much, and has been for hundreds of years. 7 pounds for a pint, history shows us that it would be a bad idea. I say this because it will give the crimminals another way to earn big money (America 1920's)
 
Why do peple bother reacting to crap like this that is one mans idiotic suggestion that wont get anywhere near the house of commons.

Theyv'e had late licsensing on Scotland for years and Edingbourgh and Glasgow are great cities on a night.
 
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It all seemed fine in Dubin too, it felt so odd going to the bar at 3:30am but it was great. I do admit I was very ill the next day :( However I still didn't drink more in terms of pints, it was becuase their cider was much stronger but I didn't know this till afterwards. If ever I am abroad now I always find the volume. I am ok as longs as I don't exceed 20 units anything above that is when I start to feel ill and I am sick the next day. I usualy drink 15 units though but I don't even go out every weekend.

I am starting my own club night soon so it will be interesting to see what happens.
 

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