Windbag is worse threat than Terrorists..

PeteH said:
A "continental style drinking culture" would be A Very Good Thing in my book, at least speaking from experience of the parts of the continent I've visited....


With respect, you're the only one who has introduced a second parameter.
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Pete, I think we are in agreement. My point was that the pertinent part of 'look at Friday night in A&E' is '..Friday night..' not the price of booze.

Sure, drink makes a % of people behave badly. By this logic tripling fuel tax would reduce the number of road accidents caused by bad drivers in A&E
 
The Devil said:
How little most of you know about the world.
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So what is you personal experience of all this? The BBC News by ance chance? An organisation run by middle class elitist southerners who fell of the old boys lorry?
 
The Devil said:
I am a liver specialist.
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There must be plenty of other things that damage a persons liver. What other foods/drinks would you ban then.

Anyone with an once of brain understands alcohol will damage their liver but they still drink why?
 
MO! said:
£7 for one pint
£10 for 5 pills
£5-£10 for 1 gram
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And with NO tax to the government, and organised crime to bring it all in.

£7 a pint is ridiculous - making pubs serve no more than, say, 4 pints to an individual in one night is a better plan. Maybe compulsory breathalysing on the way to the bar???

I'll go back to naughties if this comes in, and that's a promise. Julian's right - nights in the Stratford Rex (2000 pillheads going for it) have no problems at all at the end of the night, barring the odd random drunken sod who got in the club to drink all night (and they stand out like a sore thumb compared to the "loved up" majority).

Plus, a bad comedown is nothing compared to an average hangover.
 
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Don't be so stupid. How would you implement that?

There is a huge epidemic of excessive alcohol consumption. Something needs to be done about it, and the simplest method is to increase the Duty.
 
£7 a pint is not the answer. it's a typical head-in-the-sand nanny state aproach. look at the result with cigarettes. the poorest are the most affected - they can afford their 20 mayfair while the kids get beans on toast. meanwhile criminal gangs are importing them from the continent and selling them cheap, but at a profit.

Increasing the price will only mean that the twats on a weekend bender will spend all their money on alcohol and starve the rest of the week. Or the focus will shift to the twats drinking booze-cruise bought stuff at home and fighting on the estates, and pissing on your lawn/car, partying loud late into the night in the flat above.

also the 'kid in a sweet shop' syndrome would exacerbate abroad leading to daily reports of English thugs rioting on the continent.


Give A&E staff tasers. combine overnight cells with an Acute alcohol related A&E. a zero tolerance approach to those abusing emergency staff, reparations from wages for offenders. these would be a sensible way of allowing those of us who do drink responsibly to do so unaffected.
 
GAZZ said:
Anyone with an once of brain understands alcohol will damage their liver but they still drink why?
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The main reason is they think it wont happen to them. They think they are invincible and it will happen to other people. Plus some people are mildly or very addicted to booze.

also people are not aware of the damage it can cause.

SCIDB
 
penance said:
Yes it is, abuse (whether physical or verbal) results in refusal of treatment and security escort.
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seems more like a slap on the wrists.
things really need to be taken to the next level because the same people seem to be able to do it again week after week. It's surely time to make an example of a few of them; reclassify the offence as a more serious one and punish them. it's time something was done to protect the victims properly. as soon as someone assualts an A&E worker they should be dealt with to the full extent of the law.

Perhaps a three strikes rule to refuse them ALL and ANY future treatment to the grave?
 
Slap on the wrist?
Well, in our society we do have certain standards to abide by.
Being NHS, they can not refuse treatment for life, otherwise it would not be the NHS.

Reclassifying an offense to increase punishment smacks of big brother attitude.
 
Hi AT,

amazingtrade said:
If that was the case (I.e the Hacienda etc) then it was before my time.
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Yes it was the case in pre Hacienda days and post Hacienda days. I suggest you look at the crime figure for Manchester. You will see that it has a high crime rate. It is one of the worst in the country. It is true that crime rate overall is going down but crime is running at twice the national average. The media isn't making this up, it's fact.

As I said before, ask yourself why is manchester city centre is full of police? Ask yourself why manchester has had to put in The City Centre Safe initiative? Ask yourself why it's still going on? There has been big crime in the city centre. A lot of it is booze related.

The city centre safe initiative was started due the big rise in crime. It has reduced crime but not stop it. Between 1997 & 1999 the number of licensed premises rose by 242%. The number of alcohol related violent crimes rose, in the same period, by 225%. Hence the action had be taken.

keep out the link below.

http://www.crimereduction.gov.uk/alcoholorders07.htm#Man

Have a look at these sites for some more education on crime

Manchester's crime rate over the last few years.

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/t...=3&force=2&cdrp=140&l1=8&l2=0&l3=0&sub=0&v=24

Comparison with Sheffield

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/t...7&force=24&cdrp=239&l1=0&l2=0&l3=0&sub=0&v=24

Leeds

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/t...7&force=28&cdrp=106&l1=0&l2=0&l3=0&sub=0&v=24

Liverpool

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/t...3&force=39&cdrp=360&l1=0&l2=0&l3=0&sub=0&v=24

Nottingham

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/t...=8&force=5&cdrp=213&l1=0&l2=0&l3=0&sub=0&v=24

A comparison with sheffield

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/839096.stm

For some bedtime reading on crime figures. It shows Greater manchester to have a high crime rate.

http://search2.openobjects.com/kbro...cs=iso-8859-1&sc=hoffice&sm=0&sf=&ha=126&mt=1

amazingtrade said:
I am not saying there isn't a need for police, but its still only the minority that create the problems, so I don't see why 98% of people should have to pay £7 a pint just becuase 2% will smash up car windows after a few pints of stella.
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The small minority can cause a hell of alot of hassle and damage. They cost the country billions of pounds. They can cost the country alot in lost time and days off work. They cause hardship, in convience, sadness and misery for many people.

Another thing is that it's not always the same people who make up that small percent each week. A number of people who cause the hassle get away scot free or don't get caught to much later on or when it's too late.


amazingtrade said:
I think the answer is much tougher punishment on those that comment crimes while under the influence of alchohol.
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One thing they can do is clear up the mess they make, repair the damage done and pay (or work) compensation. This can be done for a fixed period to the victim and soceities satisfaction. Plus other court punishment depending on the crime.


amazingtrade said:
There are also lots of rough clubs in Manchester but luckily as they are so many places the rough places are a doddle to avoid. I think its probably fair to say that the commercial chain bars seem to create the most problems.
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The problems are caused by many things and the big chains have take their share of the blame, as do the people who drink in them. Also police and councils also have to take their share of the blame as well.


amazingtrade said:
I will admit the roughest pub near me (my local area) is Wetherspoons where the drinks are cheap but its not rough in the sense that you might get beaten up its just very rowdy and smokey where as the more localy owned bars tend to be a bit more pricey and exclusive. So I actually like Wetherspoon's being cheap becuase it stops these people venturing into the better bars it keeps them all in one place. Most the bars near me even the ones that turn into pre clubs at weekends have no bouncers there just isn't the need.

I am against my wetherspoons wanting a late licence simply becuase I know all the scallies drink there and I dread to think what they would be like at 1:00am. The police however know its a trouble spot so they might refuse.

PS There are plenty of decent wetherspoons its just the one near me isn't as its the cheapest pub in all of South Manchester.
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I have been in that Wetherspoon's and you do get some people who like a drink. It's up to the owners, the customers, the police and the council to keep control of the venue and the surroundings.

The facts in Manchester have seen that the increase in late night drinking venues has given a rise in crime that is drink related. If not monitored and organised properly, trouble will occur.



amazingtrade said:
What I am saying is I admit there is a problem but its so easy to avoid,
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No it's not always the case. It is quite easy to get caught up in trouble not of your own doing. It can be quite random. That the thing with drink related incidences. You could be minding your own business and then you could be caught up with a incident involving someone who has been drinking.

For example you could bump into someone, an accident, and you could appologise. If the person you bumped into has had a skinfull he or she could start trouble or a fight. This could end up with you defending yourself or getting battered or glassed.

amazingtrade said:
and if they get injuries as a result of drink then charge them for it at A&E fine them for being drunk etc.
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The downside is that a number of people who are in A&E are victims of drink related behaviour. The drunks getting away with it scot free.

amazingtrade said:
Don't make the decent members of public who have never broken the law while drunk pay for it.
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When people in society cause problems, we all have to pay for it. This is why it is a society problem.


SCIDB
 
kennyk said:
£7 a pint is not the answer. it's a typical head-in-the-sand nanny state aproach. look at the result with cigarettes. the poorest are the most affected - they can afford their 20 mayfair while the kids get beans on toast. meanwhile criminal gangs are importing them from the continent and selling them cheap, but at a profit.

Increasing the price will only mean that the twats on a weekend bender will spend all their money on alcohol and starve the rest of the week.
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I read such ill-informed and arrogant nonsense here all the time.

This forum seems to be composed of people who, though rarely troubled by any useful thoughts in their heads, think nothing of posting them up.

IT HAS BEEN WELL-ESTABLISHED HISTORICALLY THAT AN INCREASE IN PRICE LEADS TO A DECLINE IN CONSUMPTION.

This is true for most things, not just alcohol.
 

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