You when things are bad when...........

Mick, mains optimised SBLs are really good.

 

come on guys this is now getting shabby and not a little pathetic. you don;t like naim kit, we get it, whoop-de-****in'-do. naim like most other hi-fi companies are trying to adapt to changing market conditions whilst also trying not to piss off their existing customer base. they've made the transition to a more widely acceptable sound with the reference series and while there may have been some who prefer the older kit, most have acccepted the new sound as an improvement or at least as not losing the naim character that they enjoy. as for criticising their pricing policy, well i can think of many other manufacturers who take the piss far worse. naim do not use mass produced smc circuitry because they can then repair their older models and they believe it sounds better and for the most part things are hand assembled. other companies that use smc where components and manufacturing by robot are down in the fractions of a penny are ripping you off far worse and lets not get into the comparisons with the manufacturing costs of companies like krell, ML and boulder where ok they probably cost more to manufacture but they sell for 5 times the cost at least.. and to my ears sound much worse.
dealer margins are dealer margins, if you are dim enough to pay retail then you deserve to get the shaft there is plenty of room for maneuver and if you are too british to haggle a bit then that';s hardly naims fault.
neil mcbride - omfg, naim have had to undo some atrocities to their amps perpetrated by this man, he even brags about it on his web site see:
http://www.neilmcbride.co.uk/julian.html
the guys a tinkerer nothing more if you want to accept his say so and not that of your ears then good luck, you're more of a sheep than any naim owner if you do.
cheers


julian

 

it goes to show, some say smd are better as of reliability, shorter signals, less vibration. Everyone has an opinion to say theirs is best, you just have to get what you like in the end and ignore the rhetoric.

Indeed, do not accept what a dealer says...'eg tom evans stuff is the best, naim is the best'

what a naim director says' we are doing well'

what a policitian says' the rail network is in great shape'

....they all have vested interests...just ignore words and simply examine the facts...words are nothing, and are used to obfuscate, confuse, facts just facts....dont' believe words..not even mine!!

did you know mcbrides stuff is based on les wolstenholme who is not an idiot, and dissects naim stuff, much to the chagrin of naim...more than meets the eye there.

I have looked at his site, he is not a tinkerer, its all sound stuff and doesn't change the fundamentals of the naim stuff.

however, yes I do acknowledge, I woudln't tinker, as it does in most cases destroy your hopes of selling a lot of things on when the time comes.

He is an academic and a phd (DR) man, so is not thick.(mcbride).

The forum has never been so much fun xmas cheer?

 

I've been watching this thread with a morbid curiosity. The thing I don't understand is why Naim are always the company who get all the stick on the forums?

So why Naim? IMHO they produce some of the most reliable kit on the market and support it very well, it also retains its value better than most other brands so is easy to offload later. What's not to like? To my mind there are far more obvious targets for ridicule such as Musical Fidelity (IMHO unreliable and remarkably poor sounding) or Tag McClaren (a crass marketing joke that backfired spectacularly) etc.

Sure, Naim have changed their direction a little over the past few years, but products like the new Nait 5i prove they have not lost the plot – I still don't know what I think of the 552 / 500 price level, but as I'm not a highly paid manager at the Post Office I don't need to consider such things…

Naim occupy a very special place in the history of UK audio along with companies such as Linn, Quad, Sugden, Tannoy, Michell, Spendor, Harbeth etc – they have all got a long and very credible history, and IMHO the audio market would be a far worse place if any of these companies were no longer around.

Tony.

 

Tony, I agree with that wholeheartedly. I think one of the reasons Naim get so much stick is precisely because of the almost cult-like following they have. It's the same reason why M*n* gets so much stick - allthough in their case the strength of their following is bordering on insanity!

I don't think anyone here would wish to see Naim fail, but they and their accolytes do rather offer themselves up for a bit of stick

Any product (not just hifi) that has a fanatical owner base usually becomes the target of ridicule, along with its fans. I'm sure there's a good pop-psychology explanation for that but I'm not going to offer one.

As far as other targets for ridicule if you think that Musical Fidelity are untouched then you clearly haven't read enough of your namesake's (WM) posts Personally I think they offer some pretty good products at remarkably good prices. I find their sound a little bland and I think bringing out new "limited edition" kit every 6 months doesn't help their credibility but a lot of people (especially in the US) like their stuff.

Michael.

 

I have mains optimised SBL'S!
All this refers to is that the speakers are being fed by kit from a seperate mains spur/CU (IN my case 4 of em).

Regards,
andy c!

 

Tony

You said..."The thing I don't understand is why Naim are always the company who get all the stick on the forums?

It is the old British habit of knocking success. Deadbeats knock success in this country, they always have and always will.

I have just taken delivery of a CDS3 / XPS2 and if you heard it, you will understand why Naims sales are going upwards. It sounds better than the CDS2 and it's only been running for an hour.

Regards

Mick

 

So what. My Densen sounded better than my CDS2 when it had only been running for 5 mins. Nonetheless, Mick, enjoy your new player.

 

Congratulations

I should hope it does sound better Mick, otherwise I'd be a bit miffed! I hope you enjoy it as much as I am enjoying my new player.

Robbo

 

Robbo

What have you got and perhaps we ought to have a listen to each others system sometime.

Regards

Mick

 

Sure Mick, I'd love to have a listen to your setup again and you are more than welcome to visit me. lets try and sort out something in the new year.

My new player is a Simaudio Moon Eclipse. It is quite simply the best CD player I have heard. Stunning build quality and sound, grooves like a bastard with detail and imaging to die for too. The best of all worlds. You probably wont like the looks though.

You can read more about it here :-

http://www.simaudio.com/mooneclipse.htm

Regards, Neil

 

But that's 'cos you are terminally deaf. My CDS2 sounds better than your Densen and you know it Mind you my CDS2 probably sounds better than Mick's CDS3 regardless of his phase

 

Re: Alex

Separate spurs from a Memera CU to straight to the back of each box. Case fuses left as Naim intended.

Actually I should point out the the Densen play is very good value for money (but not a CDS2) and AlexS' system is one of the most fun listens I've had despite a difficult room

 

"So what. My Densen sounded better than my CDS2 when it had only been running for 5 mins. Nonetheless, Mick, enjoy your new player."

Good for you - and so it should to your ears or you would not be putting up with it now, would you?

 

I think this is a chicken and egg scenario..

We have....

1) CHICKEN
Naim users, who have specialist hifi equipment that has a different sound to some other specialist equipment. Chickens are vocal about their appreciation of their feathers.

2) EGG
Other 2 channel equipment users, who prefer another choice of presentation. They dont like the vocal chickens, because they dont agree with their clucking. They poo poo the poultry.

3) CHICKEN
Ruffled feathers in the chicken camp. How dare the eggy-upstarts mock? Cant they see the pleasantness in my plumage? MY feathers are great, its your yolks that are bad....


etc etc

Well, I hope I made someone laugh


Chris

 

You might be right but on this occaision I think it's some good natured ribbing amongst forum members who are well aware of each others kit and tastes, Well I was certainly taking the piss out of Alex and Mick.

 

Robbo

I have to admit that you have a bit of serious looking kit there.

I am bunged up solid until mid Jan but we should be able to sort something out then.

The CDS3 is unbelieveable, even old slopper from Cheltenham couldn't dislike it .

Look forward to meeting you again.

Regards

Mick

 

Re: Robbo

Maybe you could expand on that Mick. In what way, and what references have you compared it to?

I have not had the chance to hear it, other than at the Heathrow show which does not really count. Reports suggest it has tremendous drive, but is not the last word in detail retrieval.

Your thoughts would be interesting

 

Mick, while I will happily agree the cds 3 is a step up form the cds2, it's little more than a meridian 588 (a good player though in it's own right), though still a long way short, of getting seriously good, Have heard one a great length (with xps 2) of 3 week period at work, I think you'll find Robbo's Sim a real ear opener, and it does the PRat thing spot on too & detail that'll surprise, overall Robbos' system now is cracking, and I think you'll find the trip worth while
Me, I still trundle on with me heavy boxes (1 Box now & virtualy completed modding), which may bring a smile to your face.
I do also look forward to sampling some of that single malt this time, though Tone

 

Tom, piss takes aside, I remember TonyL coming round and thinking the CDS2 sounding crippled, largely on account of Mana I think he thought. Also, its when its not plugged into an all Naim system where it generally works, like what yours does. In my system the Densen saw it off in 5 minutes. Having said all that the Densen only really starts to work optimally when its got a small Ben Duncan and a Eupen cable. This takes it to the ridulous price of 700 quid short of half a CDS2.

Alex