2 Power kords needed

WM, I think we are in agreement. RFI attenuation 'differences' may not necessarily be better - just different - in audio at least. Same story with jitter? At least RA & Eupen are up front about what their cables are actually doing - effecting RFI. My original point was that if removing it as far as possible is the goal, then there are more effective methods than just plaiting your wires ..and it doesn't cost the earth.

Whilst I'm here ..my 2p's worth on vibration & racks.... To minimise vibration through floor/rack vibration, why use a rack at all. Bolt your gear to a wall. Use isolator between shelf & component if still needed. Then damp component as far as poss?

Site I posted on a couple of days ago:

http://wwwu.earsc.com

These guys (USA) do isolation & damping. Take a look at their applications page - some interesting stuff on turntable & amplifier damping/isolation amongst much else. Particularly the C-1002 for isolation. This stuff 'absorbs' almost everything over 20-20Khz at 20 degrees celcius - take a look at the 'Nomogram'. (I know about this stuff because I used to design & manufacture parts of MRI scanners, and it was used for mechanical damping in MRI systems). It's expensive, but probably considerably cheaper than several stages of Mana...or even 1 ..
oops, done it again. I've never listened to Mana...sorry Devil..;)
 
Robs, yes the Guys here at (Omiga) have undertaken work for repsected companies with these vibration free air tables, in clean rooms, sort of an anocoic chamber for vibrationless enviroments, Not for audio, and the lengths that are gone too to obtain a completely free shake zone is mind blowing, however it give a great insight as to how much normal everyday vibrations effect even the most unassuming things even hifi equipment ;) WM
 
Sooo easy, when you run out of arguments, blame it on AV...
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What do you mean 'run out of arguments'?

FWIW my intuition tells me that Tony's system would work better as a stereo hifi without the large CRT, rack and associated electronics situated between the loudspeakers.

FWIW2 I don't believe stands are critical except for turntables and to a lesser extent CDPs and speakers. What matters more is layout.

FWIW3 I can think of at least three vibration sources, internal from transformers or whatever, external coming up the rack, and direct from the air. If you wall mount onto a partition wall the wall will move more than if you mount onto a structural wall but it may be better than mounting to a suspended floor.

Paul
 
FWIW3 I can think of at least three vibration sources, internal from transformers or whatever, external coming up the rack, and direct from the air. If you wall mount onto a partition wall the wall will move more than if you mount onto a structural wall but it may be better than mounting to a suspended floor.
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Paul, you are right - I was not considering partition walls (being in the fortunate position of not having any!) - I wouldn't bolt anything more than a picture frame to one....
My thinking was - knock out the external vibrations from rack/floor (bolt to wall), then damp the component - by which I mean the case work & the PCBs - damping the casework will reduce airborne vibrations effecting whatever it is that is effected by vibrations(!?),and damping PCBs/individual components will reduce internally generated vibrations.
Can't hear any difference, but most of my CDP's caps have a blob of blutac on them, the PCB is suspended on C-1002 & casework covered in the stuff. Nothing 'rings'. Smells a bit though...

WM, just had a look at your site (looks good!) - am intrigued by your 'recharging' of cables - how does that work then
:confused:
or do I have to listen to some..?;) :rolleyes:
 
Paul, I certainly would agree with your first statement 100% every thing in hifi is a compromise, so just imaging how it would sound without a tv and a much lower rack :)
Robs, well the site is coming together, takes time but more stuff on the way soon :)
The cooker works, by generating a high bandwidth extreme discharge pulse with an ultra fast rise and fall time, which 'WM explaination now ;) ' causes the electron flow pattern to sort itself a finite route through the cable grain struture.
Surfice to say, it does has an audiable difference, benefits can include (please do read the site Robs else I may be accused of loitering with intent here :D ) It also helps when creating new cables as we can 'burn em in within 48 -60 hours usualy' so fine cable tuning can be compared relatvely quickly, all our cables are Cooked before leaving ( and some are also Cyro'd as well).
you are welcome for a listen anytime. WM
 
The cooker works, by generating a high bandwidth extreme discharge pulse with an ultra fast rise and fall time, which 'WM explaination now ' causes the electron flow pattern to sort itself a finite route through the cable grain struture.
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Perhaps WM explanation is what I need..I'm no rocket scientist. How/why does the cable need 'recharging'? Does the 'electron flow pattern' deteriorate over time?

all our cables are Cooked before leaving ( and some are also Cyro'd as well).
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What temp do you take them down to - LN2 or LHe? (current job is involved with superconducting - been meaning to try it on my old Tandy Gold Patch's for a while...).

Ta for offer of a listen..would like to, but must warn I'm sceptical of my own ability to tell difference between I/Cs, filters, mains etc etc!! If you've got a set of 'treated' vs 'untreated' & are willing to loan them to a sceptic I'd be more than happy to try 'em out..
 
Back from Robbo's now with, courtesy of WM, another CDP to try and a big fat power lead called a Tsunami, so I'll be trying it on everything, including the kettle, probably.

Giving it a go on the phono stage seems a good first bet, as I would imagine a low-output MC cart would benefit the most from any RFI reduction on offer. We'll see.

-- Ian
 
Originally posted by sideshowbob
Giving it a go on the phono stage seems a good first bet, as I would imagine a low-output MC cart would benefit the most from any RFI reduction on offer. We'll see.

-- Ian
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Ian,

Tsunami, RFI reduction, Non:D

Tsunami, balls, current, Oui;)

Try on Power amp or source as well, you never know;)
 
Originally posted by merlin
Tsunami, RFI reduction, Non:D

Tsunami, balls, current, Oui;)
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A bit different to my findings here...

The Tsunami gives much better RFI reduction than the Eupen or dearer RA Kimber leads I've got to hand for comparison. Well at least that's my conclusion going by the least hashy sound it gives on the digital components compared to the other two.

My power amp should like the Tsunami but it doesn't. Not enough dynamic current delivery for it, so something else gets used instead. ;)

Just for a laugh, I tried the RA Kimber power kord on the computer monitor, as I had a spare one lying around doing nothing. Nothing new to the a/v guys who know the benefits of such things I guess, but even to my rather lazy eyes I can see a difference... blacker blacks and much more vibrant colours and a rock solid stability has been gained to the whole image - it's like somone turned the contrast control up a notch or two :eek:. So if the Tsunami is long enough, maybe Ian should have a go with the PC screen too !! :D
 
Originally posted by The Devil
AV systems are for watching the telly on. Hi-fis are for listening to music. It's like comparing a tractor with an Aston Martin.
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Funny you should mention that. There was a Linn Tractor company in the USA and you can buy one of their leaflets from 1923 from ebay.
 
Originally posted by sideshowbob
Anyway, no-one's answered my question yet. Has anyone done any research into whether posh kettle leads actually measurably reduce RFI or not? Yea or nay?

-- Ian
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Ian, fair question:)

I am unaware of any scientific tests that have been carried out. If you read the claims of all manufacturers carefully, they are worded very well. They all claim that their products reduce the affects of RFI in the system. I really don't care what they are doing if they make my system produce more enjoyable music. If the difference is marked when using a double blind test, I don't see the need for anything else. In the Shunyata's case, it was. Now in the overall picture the differences might be considered small by some. But it's getting the little things right that turn a good system into a great one IMO.

Now food for the nay sayers, and I'll probably get pilloried for this (but I tell it as it is:) ). Experiment with Tact. Take measurement and apply equalization. Then add various mains acoutrements. Not the improvements in levels of hash, bass extension etc etc.

Now perform another measurement with cables in situ and apply same EQ. Shockingly, the balance of the sound will revert to as it was prior to the mains tweaks to my ears:eek: So, I would have to deduce that the cables are adding rather than subtracting something:confused:

I don't really care too much, as I find the music far better with them in circuit, and they do stand up to blind comparisons.
 
I can easily see the benefits of isolating components, particularly those with moving parts, if you live in a house with suspended floor, or heavy traffic, or central air conditioning, or the drier spinning next door, or whatever that shakes the house... :rolleyes:

My house has concrete floors and walls, no traffic arround the neighbourwood, no central air, nothing really rocks but the music, and the kids upstairs, sometimes...

I very much doubt that I need more than a solid rack, still, if someone wants to bring such device, as long as its footprint is not wider than 17", and it is not taller than 1", I am willing to test it... :MILD:
 
If your house is shaking - move!

lowrider, you miss the point of Mana stands somewhat. 'Isolation' is not really what they are all about. As soon as you switch on, the boxes will buzz, play something and you have airborne vibrations too.
 
Originally posted by cookiemonster
You can borrow my sink if you can be arsed karting it around Mike.
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Cheers Dino - good to see you back, how was the honeymoon? :D

Anyway, as with Mana, I don't think I could really be arsed to kart it to Portugal and back, but thanks for the offer anyway :)

Michael.
 
Devil,

Of course music is vibration, but if you only get the airborne kind, nothing going through the floors, walls or wobly racks, (mine has about 300 pounds on it), there should not be enough energy to affect the components much, after all, they are supposed to withstand some, particularlly the more expensive ones...

Paul,

I can only speak for my instalation, the rack, with TV and all, is over 3' from each front speaker, and over 1' back, so I don't think it interferes much...

As for other interferences, I can always switch off the TV, etc, if I want PURE stereo...
 
lowrider,

How have you addressed the problem of intrinsic vibration (i.e. that which is generated from within your very expensive boxes) in your system?
 
Originally posted by The Devil
lowrider,

How have you addressed the problem of intrinsic vibration (i.e. that which is generated from within your very expensive boxes) in your system?
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What's the point James:rolleyes: Paul did point out it was only an AV system after all;)
 

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