30 years on...

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The Devil said:
You miss it when you write it, though.
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Just replying to your vacuous claims Bub. Still waiting for this proof you claim you can produce.

As Alex says, sadly the words of a very polite pianist do not hold water from a scientific point of view.
 
Alex S said:
I know quite a few pianists. Most of them listen to music in a concert hall or on a Denon or B&O midi-system, depending on how succesful they are. Claiming as evidence or weight of argument that they're impressed with a decent and exorbitant (in their terms) hi-fi does not stand up, I'm afraid.
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This isn't to do with whether she likes the system, or not (she does), it's to do with whether there is an audible shift in the tonal balance with Mana (there isn't).
 
Anex said:
No you said it doesn't affect frequency response. The only way you could possibly do that is by having an entirely one way system where all the vibration is taken downwards away from the system. This requires a perfect vibration sink, which requires infinite mass.
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Explain how an imperfect vibration sink alters the tonal balance.
 
Stereo Mic said:
Just replying to your vacuous claims Bub. Still waiting for this proof you claim you can produce.
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I've already explained why no-one can ever disprove your amazing theory.
 
The Devil said:
It sounds OK. There's always room for improvement, as you well know, fox.
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unfortunately i've learned that doesn't automatically mean one is happier.

I simply cannot hear the difference... thats without 'Mana's little helper' of course.
 
The first statement is true. The second is debatable! You certainly claimed for years & years that you could hear the difference with extra Mana. After a falling-out with someone, you suddenly can't. Strange.
 
So if Bub were to play a pink noise signal from CD, place his stylus on a stationary record and record the resulting signal we'd expect to find 'mid range emphasis' in a spectrum analysis? How much? What level should we play at? I'm happy to help perform this experiment if the proposers of the hypothesis can firm up their claims.

FWIW 'frequency spectra' is (in general) tautological and in the original usage here I think unnecessarily plural, presumably for effect?

Paul
 
The problem is that everyone seems to be obsessed with "minimising resonance", or some such. So much so, that they overlook the fact that having a stand which resonates or vibrates very easily might well be a good thing, and it is.
 
The Devil said:
You certainly claimed for years & years that you could hear the difference with extra Mana. After a falling-out with someone, you suddenly can't. Strange.
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missed your edit...

Not strange at all.... you take the view Mana has to work under everything I take the (entirely reasonble) view any effect is variable and equipment specific and nonexistent in some cases.

As you previously said I changed hardware and was suitably moved to try the Orbe off Mana for the first time (I'd inherited from my lp12/brik/stealth days) and I heard no change. Additionally refusing "Mana's little helper" also brings extra clarity to the proceedings.
 
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The Devil said:
The problem is that everyone seems to be obsessed with "minimising resonance", or some such. So much so, that they overlook the fact that having a stand which resonates or vibrates very easily might well be a good thing, and it is.
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Thats exactly what I said
 
Paul Ranson said:
So if Bub were to play a pink noise signal from CD, place his stylus on a stationary record and record the resulting signal we'd expect to find 'mid range emphasis' in a spectrum analysis? How much? What level should we play at? I'm happy to help perform this experiment if the proposers of the hypothesis can firm up their claims.

FWIW 'frequency spectra' is (in general) tautological and in the original usage here I think unnecessarily plural, presumably for effect?

Paul
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Are you talking to me? Why a mid range emphasis? It could be anywhere. And lets be honest, if a perfect mid emphasis were found a way would be found to blame it on something else. How exactly would you plan to proove its entirely the stand doing it?

Perhaps but I don't like to call it 'Tonal balance' cause you sound like a hifi reviewer. Its not unnecessarily plural when I'm talking about the frequency spectrum off all the individual components. Any other hairs to split?
 
You've still failed to explain how a passive stand can introduce tonal abberations into the signal.

fox -- rationalise it any way you feel comfortable with.
 
Without getting into the debate about whether Mana or stands in general have any effect on a system, in what way can something in a system change the sound of the system if it's not changing the frequency response (tonal balance)?

Michael.
 
Pot>Kettle>Black

The Devil said:
fox -- rationalise it any way you feel comfortable with.
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I bow to your obvious expertise in this area -- seeing how you've spent nearly 7,500 messages on two forums doing just that.
 
Indeed, that's just what Mana seems to do, but unevenly, thus changing the tonal balance. How unevenly seems linked to set-up.
 
The Devil said:
You've still failed to explain how a passive stand can introduce tonal abberations into the signal.
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Put your TT on top of the running washing machine. That should give you some idea
 
30 years on ... we will still be having the same debate.

Bub, please take a few minutes to think about what Anex has written. Whether or not it applies to Mana, it still makes a lot of sense.

Multi-phase Mana may or may not be a complex mix of transmiting and damping resonance, which may indeed have consequences for tonal balance. Unless you believe the guff about spikes acting as mechanical diodes.
 
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