30 years on...

[Paul Ranson]

Are you talking to me?

Not specifically, although you are one of the people asserting a change in the frequency response from the use of stands.

Why a mid range emphasis?

'Stereo Mic' claims Mana produces a mid range emphasis.

How exactly would you plan to proove its entirely the stand doing it?

You tell me. It's your hypothesis that stands change the frequency response. One obvious possibility is to use a different stand for any or all of the system.

Paul

 

[Stereo Mic]

I've already explained why no-one can ever disprove your amazing theory.

Of course you can. Simply perform a blind test with your kit on and off Mana. If you notice a difference it will be altering the tonal balance. If you don't, you are correct and can happily keep using the ££££'s worth of iron and glass knowing that it has no effect at all.

 

[Paul Ranson]

Multi-phase Mana may or may not be a complex mix of transmiting and damping resonance, which may indeed have consequences for tonal balance.

Are you assuming an acoustic effect here?

Can someone clarify the purported mechanism where 'vibration' from the stand changes the frequency response of a hifi component? If we take the washing machine proposal seriously for a nanosecond how can adding two signals together be considered as a change in the frequency response of just one?

Paul

 

[Paul Ranson]

If you notice a difference it will be altering the tonal balance.

Are you sure that's what you meant? You may very well be right, that frequency response and reasonably low distortion are all that matter, but that makes your position on mains cables a little confusing.

Paul

 

[Stereo Mic]

My position on mains cables is that the vast majority are of no use whatsoever and the ones I believe to work subjectively alter the frequency response. As of this moment, I am unaware of any measurements being carried out on these cables.

 

[The Devil]

Put your TT on top of the running washing machine. That should give you some idea

That's why I said "a passive stand". Mana is not a running washing machine, it is unpowered, and, as such, cannot generate its own vibrations.

Any vibrations present in a Mana stand must be coming from outside, and I suggest to you that the more important component of these vibrations comes from the equipment which is standing on the Mana.

I think it's unlikely that sound from the speakers will generate much, if any, vibration in a Mana stand.

 

[Alex S]

The above but one post is quite handy, actually. From now on I declare that Mana 'subjectively' alters the frequency response, as do other stands, cables and various pointy or blobby nonsense; this obviates the need for any objectivity.

 

[The Devil]

Bub, please take a few minutes to think about what Anex has written.

Markus, please take a few minutes to write a post about whether you believe that Mana alters the tonal balance. You've heard my system. Can you please tell the audience here whether you think that there are any audible tonal abnormalities.

 

[michaelab]

By reducing noise & distortion.

Which are both components of the frequency response, so if you are reducing these you're altering the frequency response. Tonal balance is a less technical term for frequency response. So, reducing noise and distortion is altering the tonal balance. QED.

Michael.

 

[The Devil]

Of course you can. Simply perform a blind test with your kit on and off Mana. If you notice a difference it will be altering the tonal balance. If you don't, you are correct and can happily keep using the ££££'s worth of iron and glass knowing that it has no effect at all.

Logic is not your strong point. Trying to piss other people off on-line, however, is.

 

[domfjbrown]

in what way can something in a system change the sound of the system if it's not changing the frequency response (tonal balance)?

Exactly.

Removing noise from the signal removes SOUND - whether it's wanted or not. Anything that changes the timing, musicality or whathaveyou of a system HAS to be altering the tonal balance whether it be subtly or not, otherwise there'd be no obvious change to the sound.

Less "noise" = change in tonality, by default, surely.

A resonating stand will subtly change the sound/tonality of a system - even if it's only in the stand's area of resonance.

 

[The Devil]

Which are both components of the frequency response, so if you are reducing these you're altering the frequency response. Tonal balance is a less technical term for frequency response. So, reducing noise and distortion is altering the tonal balance. QED.

That particular hair was split several pages ago. Mana cannot and does not alter the frequency response of the music signal. Nor can any other stand, for that matter.

 

[The Devil]

A resonating stand will subtly change the sound/tonality of a system - even if it's only in the stand's area of resonance.

I'm talking about music signal, not extraneous noise. The stand's "area of resonance" means what, exactly?

 

[domfjbrown]

Mana cannot and does not alter the frequency response of the music signal.

So what is "lowering the noisefloor", if the stand doesn't alter the frequency response? All sound is frequency response, whether it's wanted, or "noise".

This is going round in circles even more than the original LP12 topic, which seems to have petered out around page 30

 

[The Devil]

Dom, are you being obtuse on purpose?

Do you know the difference between signal & noise?

 

[Stereo Mic]

Mana cannot and does not alter the frequency response of the music signal. .

That's the third cup! now please, either stop sayng such nonsense or produce some proof.

 

[The Devil]

You actually are being obtuse.

How many times do I need to tell you that the onus is on you to prove this physics-busting effect?

 

[michaelab]

James - are you being obtuse on purpose? In absolute terms there is no difference between signal and noise.

There's what goes in to a bit of kit and what comes out. It's all signal. The difference between the input and the output determines the frequency response. If there's no difference the response "curve" is a perfectly flat line.

If the kit adds noise or distortion then that alters the frequency response. If you do something to the kit (such as put it on a stand) that reduces that noise or distortion then that's altering the frequency response (tonal balance).

Michael.

 

[domfjbrown]

Do you know the difference between signal & noise?

Of course; signal is the music you WANT to hear, noise is the crap in the background.

However, what I want to know is how can a stand remove the crap without affecting the signal??? Surely it's still affecting the overall sound in some way?

 

[The Devil]

If the kit adds noise or distortion then that alters the frequency response. If you do something to the kit (such as put it on a stand) that reduces that noise or distortion then that's altering the frequency response (tonal balance).

If the kit adds noise to the music signal, then you remove all the added noise somehow, what has happened to the music signal?

The implicit suggestion here is that Mana stands alter the pitch of notes. This is bollocks.