An open post to the forum's Naim representatives

[Barnie]

"
Merlin
We all like different sounds but I think Naim did the wise thing in the eighties with the Naim-Linn axis. That was a very wise move which put Naim on the map.

Also Naim have a well thought out upgrade trail which makes life very easy.

The cable / interconnects is also well thought out. Naimees do not have to agonise over this little issue.

There is also the advantage of longevity and servicing older kit, again this is a confidence booster for customers.

The relatively high resale value means that newbies can come in at the bottom end and progress up rather cheaply. If you buy and sell at the same price, Naim becomes free hifi.

I buy it because I like the sound but all the reasons quoted above are a bloody good perk.

Regards

Mick"


I'd agree with everything Mick has said above but would just add, some people have very busy lives and in their spare time like to enjoy music, sticking with a brand such as Naim gives them what they need as they don't have the time to phaff about demming all the kit out there, simple really

Best regards

Barnie.
http://www.barnies-place.co.uk/

 

[mick parry]

Merlin

I am not very good with words so I am finding it difficult to answer your question without repeating an answer that you will have heard before.

To me, Naim communicates music better than any other make. My toes tap quicker etc. Basically I find it move involving.

Also there is a lot of truth in what Barnie said. Most Naim buyers of new kit, probably fall into the top half of the income bracket and are cash rich and time poor. Naim makes it easy and for me at least, has delivered every time.

Regards

Mick

 

[Tom Alves]

Originally posted by merlin
Mick,

All the above reasons are excellent, but of little consolation if Hugh Masakela's Train doesn't cause me to burst into tears as it would on an Audio Research/Quad setup. (whatever happened to the Naim Electrostats anyway?)

What sould I be listening for with Naim kit? What does it do specifically that nothing else can? How do you desribe "groove" and "timing" to someone like me?

The FBLs were reputed to be able to fry a cat and much documented on the Naim forum as are discussions on PRaT. but briefly, does the music flow, does it want to make you dance and are all the instruments in time with each other (e.g. the bass line isn't half a beat behind the vocals and the high hat is rythmic rather than all over the place). And if the emotion of Hugh Masakela recountig the Coal Train doesn't have a lump in your throat then something is wrong. The inflection and rythm of the telling is all important.

 

[Tom Alves]

Naturally that doesn't mean other kit doesn't do any of this or even does it better cheaper. And anyone one sensible will admit that there is kit which totallly opposite to Naim which is equally good

 

[Markus S]

Tom, ISTR the Naim electrostats were to be called the FL1; FBS or FBL (as in f***ing big speaker or loudspeaker) was the working title for the DBL (the Damn Big Loudspeaker).

 

[merlin]

Originally posted by Markus Sauer
Tom, ISTR the Naim electrostats were to be called the FL1; FBS or FBL (as in f***ing big speaker or loudspeaker) was the working title for the DBL (the Damn Big Loudspeaker).

IIRC Markus, they were talking of the FL1 being a stacked pair! Therefore FBL might have been more approriate. Shame we never got to see it.

Thanks for the views guys, I am trying to find that "thing" that makes Naim stand out. For reference, my memories of the LP12 recall an unequalled ability to catch a rif/hook, and follow it throughout the track if need be. How exactly to you listen, or perhaps more importantly, what is it that grabs you in any particular music genre?

 

[merlin]

Originally posted by Barnie
"
I'd agree with everything Mick has said above but would just add, some people have very busy lives and in their spare time like to enjoy music,

Just to add guys (anti Naim fingers on!), you spend so much time on the internet, that this "busy life" stuff just doesn't wash!

 

[Barnie]

Originally posted by merlin
Just to add guys (anti Naim fingers on!), you spend so much time on the internet, that this "busy life" stuff just doesn't wash!

Errm, exuse me but I was referring to the many that have, I'm not one of them, I only have two peices of Naim kit, one powers my turntable the other doesn't work and you probably know why that is

Having said that I have a feeling things could change very soon, as the service I'm receiving from Naim is second to none and that speaks volumes.

Best regards

Barnie.
http://www.barnies-place.co.uk/

 

[The Devil]

It's an odd phenomenon, as Paul D said some time ago elsewhere, that the really well-set-up Naim speakers, which sound so wonderful, never seem to be the ones that you are listening to right now!

I've already checked with both ECS and JW, and they're [ECS Stealth clone amps & original Stealth amps] identical except for the casing.

Another odd phenomenon: history rewritten before my very eyes. Great stuff, keep it coming!

Marvellous.

 

[Alex S]

Hi bub, if Tom can get his SBLs to work as well oop north as he did darn sarf then you should visit to prove that they can indeed work.

The ECS thing is a bit odd - Mr soandso from ECS makes a big play at shows to say that they are different from Stealth not only in the casework. Apparently, Stealths were not regulated whilst the ECSs are. There is no doubt in the minds and ears of the Neat guys that the ECS is an inferior amp to the Stealth and, given that they are not best buddies with JW right now, this is the opposite of what you'd expect them to say from an industry politics pov (of course, they're above all that crap).

 

[jtc]

Stuff and thangs...

If Burntisland gets too cold, come down to 'sunny' Wrexham (LOL, joke) and check out mine, although undoubtedly it is a little less Naim-like these days since the addition of the EA-2.

I've never been to Wrexham before. Burntisland is fun (how did you know I was there, by the way?) and the house is incomparably better than my wee house in Edinburgh was, as the rooms are much bigger and the neighbours friendlier. It never really gets cold there as it's right on the coast, though we do get occasional rain Anyway, I might take you up on that offer sometime

I bought a Resolution Audio Opus 21. It's that very rare beastie - a giant-killing cd player that betters players twice or three times its price

Bloody brilliant CDP! I heard one at Adventures In Hi-fi last year, and in my opinion, it's not far behind a CDS2 (with the old XPS). Unfortunately, it doesn't get enough recognition. I reckon it would trounce the CDX2, though.

You're right about the recognition, but I quite like that it's lesser known, and I also like the fact that it is just soooo good for CDX2 money. The only drawback I'd say about the Opus is that the lead that goes between the PSU/Control box and the Transport/DAC box is so short - maybe 18"? - as I'd prefer to have more freedom for placement.

I've defected from my beloved DNM amps to Naim - I got frustrated by the dual volume controls, lack of remote, oddball aesthetics and the continued pressure from my better 'alf, and as we liked the Nait 2 in the second system I have ended up at 52/SC/250 in the space of a six weeks (via 82), though only because the 52/SC and above is the only level at which Naim can offer what I loved about the DNM - i.e. unforced, natural and musical sound - whilst continuing that appealing Naim-ite fun factor. The 82/HC I'm using just now (my 2002 model year 52/SC will arrive in a week or so) is good, but on a final comparison to my 3B Primus/PA3^S pre/power last night (before it was boxed up as I've sold it) the DNM really is still in front, but not by much. I expect the 52/SC/250 to be better than it, and the overall cost of going from DNM to 52/SC/250 will work out at an extra £2k over the return for the DNM (which proved difficult to sell).

I seem to take the path-less-trodden sometimes, but I quite like my new (to me) Naim setup, and more to the point, my nearest & dearest also likes it (the remote makes a big difference to her).

I only wish I could stop that bl@@dy 250 humming when the electric blankets are switched on...

jtc

 

[ReJoyce]

Re: Merlin

Originally posted by mick parry
Most Naim buyers of new kit, probably fall into the top half of the income bracket and are cash rich and time poor. Naim makes it easy and for me at least, has delivered every time.

Regards

Mick

But Mick that is almost certainly true of all of the more expensive brands, in fact more true Naim at least offer a system solution starting at around £3k, that buys you 50% of the entry level MArk Levinson CD player!

There is much more to it that that. A decent dealer will sort out cable worries for you if you don't want the hassle and perhaps this is the biggest difference. Naim dealers have, historically, been real enthusiasts and themselves extemely loyal to the brand. Some of the extreme Naimees are actually extreme <insert dealers name>ees. This all came out of the years when Naim were growing as a company with Linn and a Linn/Naim dealership had a licence to print money, that certainly helps brand loyalty imho. Back then the momentum behind the brand was huge with magazines pretty much dedicated to Linn and Naim gear. Dealers and hence their customers have been very slow to look at alternatives. Often because they handily forget that building a system is harder than plugging company X's preamp into a Naim system and expecting it to work better than the Naim pre it replaced. Also you should never underestimate the sense of well-being that is often found in belonging to a club that looks down on every one else ;->

Cheers

Jason

 

[Marco]

Originally posted by Alex S

The ECS thing is a bit odd - Mr soandso from ECS makes a big play at shows to say that they are different from Stealth not only in the casework.

Well, he would do, considering at the time of the last show, ECS had just shafted JW big time, there was the threat of legal repercussions, and therefore, quite naturally, ECS wanted to divorce themselves from their connection with Stealth by promoting their amps as being a completely separate entity. The easiest way to do that was to use a slightly different case. If it looks different from the outside, then it's easier to sell that story to Joe public.

Apparently, Stealths were not regulated whilst the ECSs are.

"Apparently" according to whom, Alex? Have you spoken to either ECS or JW regarding this? What Neat are saying means diddlysquat.

There is no doubt in the minds and ears of the Neat guys that the ECS is an inferior amp to the Stealth and, given that they are not best buddies with JW right now, this is the opposite of what you'd expect them to say from an industry politics pov (of course, they're above all that crap).

Alex, may I suggest that before you make such wild assertions you check the integrity of your source of information? My somewhat more reliable sources have indicated, how shall I say, a slightly different take on matters.

Of course, I would hasten to add that none of this makes one iota of difference to my situation. Due to its lack of availability, original Stealth amplification was never an option for me, so I couldn't give a monkey's bollocks which one is the better sounding amp. All that concerns me is that the EA-2 is a considerable upgrade over my 135s, and the music has never sounded better :MILD:

With that in mind, I'll leave you lot to argue the politics amongst yourselves...

Marco.

 

[domfjbrown]

Originally posted by merlin
Thanks for the views guys, I am trying to find that "thing" that makes Naim stand out. For reference, my memories of the LP12 recall an unequalled ability to catch a rif/hook, and follow it throughout the track if need be.

I think that's a lot of it with me and Naim - the leading edge stuff isn't so much of an issue with my lowly NAIT3, but it DOES seem to pull out rhythms and hooks nicely.

Having the CD5 on home dem this weekend (until tomorrow morning) has increased this - it's probably not neccessarily the BEST CDP for £1200, but it's very well made and I can't dem much else I'd consider, living in Exeter (it's either the CD5, Rega Jupiter, or some godawful crap from Sevenoaks (Arcam - fugedaboutit!)). The CD5 bests my old Rega Planet in every way, but it doesn't force the timing down your neck like the CD5i (not tried at home - too muffled to be a contender for me I'm afraid).

Plus the way everything (ignoring soundstage for now - though that's no worse than the Planet's)) sounds more realistic - vocal inflections, string vibrato, phrasing etc) - on the Naim CD5 comes out is very nice indeed - it holds the attention... I don't think I'll go further down the route for a while though (a pre-power might be nice, but then so might a decent holiday).

I'm definitely in the "time poor" sector of society, though "cash rich" might be pushing it (though I do OK, I can't even look at buying a small flat at the moment)>

Plus getting the CD5 (if I do) means I get a nice spare Chord phono-DIN to use on my tuner

 

[The Devil]

Marco, JW told me that ECS had downgraded some internal components as well as the case.

They did manage to lop off £2000 from the asking price: they must've cut a few corners.

 

[Alex S]

Fine Marco, whatever. Enjoy your new amp. The diddlysquatness of Neat extends to them being about the only people who've used Stealth, ECS and DVHX1.2s on the same speakers. I guess their rating of Stealth/1.2 being about equal first (for different reasons) and ECS third means nothing since the MF9s are rather sophisticated and revealing speakers.

 

[merlin]

Originally posted by The Devil
They did manage to lop off £2000 from the asking price: they must've cut a few corners.

didn't they just lose JW's cut?

 

[Marco]

Precisely.

 

[Marco]

Originally posted by Alex S

Fine Marco, whatever. Enjoy your new amp.

Cheers, Alex. Enjoy your new mains. Are you going with the separate 10mm spurs?

The diddlysquatness of Neat extends to them being about the only people who've used Stealth, ECS and DVHX1.2s on the same speakers. I guess their rating of Stealth/1.2 being about equal first (for different reasons) and ECS third means nothing since the MF9s are rather sophisticated and revealing speakers.

Alex, that's fine, but at the end of the day it's only their opinion; not fact, and their opinion makes bugger all difference to me.

Marco.

 

[Alex S]

So that's amps, now mains.

Yes, hardwired 10mm. Roy fitted the Memera with RCBOs last week - even that's a lot better with just the old spurs.

Because my mains is so polluted downstream I'll use 2 10mm spurs straight into the current drawers, power and sub if I keep it, and then use hardwired 1KVA Ben Duncans for sources etc. A good compromise, hopefully.