ATC SCM50 measured performance vs. high quality studio monitors

Well, you could reply to the post about the 3rd harmonic in Naim amps. I somehow doubt that Merlin's post adresses that.

 

I thought I already did? In conjunction with Thorstens remarks about the gain clone. Positive mag specs I dont beleive any more than manufacturers specs

The issues of the design upon which naim are based were addressed in subsequent WW / EW amendments after the original. I dont beleive naim took them onboard - having bought so heavily into the house sound with their marketing.

 

You're still talking of the power amps, not the pres. Oh well.

 

Don't ever expect a straight answer from BBZ.

"I thought" this, "I thought" that.

You can't have it both ways with the magazines - either they are corrupt, and not to be trusted, or they aren't. FWIW, I don't think ATC are big advertisers in the hi-fi mags, so corruption seems unlikely - unless a direct bribe is involved!

 

Well they both have the same edgy signature. My comments apply equally to both - as do my findings in both the dems I detailed. Would you like me to try to dig out some refs for both? Have you heard the 52 or 552 markus or are you just going by reviews?

Actually bub - they always are. Advertising, loaners, items bought at cost (or lower) and then sold at profit at resale. I always give you straight answer and never bleat for the moderators to ban anyone.

 

Could you provide references for the WW articles you claim Naim pre and power amps are derived from?

Paul

 

I said "Guards! Seize him!" as a little joke, little did I realise that you were going to be banned. If it's any consolation, there is a long thread on PFM right now, calling for your reinstatement.

Markus has heard my 52/100As.

If you insist that the magazines are corrupt & untrustworthy, then this entire thread falls flat on its face, because you are using data from a magazine.

And WW is/was a magazine, too.

 

Yes it is a mag but not a hifi mag.

my point was that it was a negative comment so it could probably be trusted or perhaps they didnt pay their dues that month...

Which thread is this bub? I am sure you are joking.

I beleive I know someone with the exact refs - will see what I can do

 

Oh, I see, so you can "cherry-pick" the remarks which you like, and disregard the rest? Nice one!

All the PFM regulars are calling for your return.

 

What is the link for that thread? lol

No I disregard the positive and look only at the negative.

 

Yes, but that suits your online purposes, where ATC are concerned. You have a well-documented dislike for ATC, based on a few (alleged) shop demos, FFS!

I have to say that if I worked for ATC, I would be hopping mad about your mendacious and misleading remarks.

Thosten can be safely ignored as a "fringe" figure. Actually, I guess, so can you!

 

I dont have a dislike for atc as such. There is just a small aspect of their performance that puts my teeth on edge. If this issue was tackled - perhaps in the way merlin described if he is in fact correct - then I would consider them very capable speakers. True I wish the bass had a bit more oomph but thats a minor quibble given their strengths. I am not persecuting them or you bub - just voicing my reservation in a forum thread devoted to that topic. Take it easy man! Nothing sinister about it. You are hopping mad - or so it appears.

Stop taking potshots at Thorsten just because he also has concerns. Theres no need for all this name calling it serves no good purpose. T might have different tastes to you and his tastes are different to mine too - yet I realise he has something valuable to say even though we might disagree on the end points we try to reach on the branches of hifi possibilitites we can still help each other on our respective journeys.

The fringe is where innovation and revolution are most likely to take place.

I browsed the PFM page without logging in - there are no calls for my return that I can see bar a few comments at the time it happened by DL et al.

 

You still babbling on? Fie! Sir!

 

Actually, it would be interesting to hear from you exactly what "strengths" the ATCs exhibited during this shop demo, over two years ago.

We know that the midrange is terribly distorted, and the bass lacks "oomph", but you've only alluded to their "strengths" without actually saying what they are. So, on a positive note, what were the ATC actives, which you heard in a shop some years back, actually good at?

 

Yes, please, dig out some refs for both.

I only comment on the sound of things I have heard myself. Where I relate the experience of others, be it from a review or whatever, I (try hard to) always make this clear. I have heard the 52 a few times, most recently at Bub's. I have also heard the 552, most recently a few times in Hermann's system.

 

I thought they were dynamic, clear and detailed - if the unpleasant edge was removed they would be very capable in my view. This held true accross half a dozen lengthy dems in 3 different "shops". However even so I beleive the MB2 bettered them. Thats an issue of personal taste however.

Markus - the power amp articles are well known I think but I will get precise details for those as well as any for the preamp design if at all possible. Please be prepared for a delay as I am up to my neck in my spare time at the moment. What did you think the strengths and weaknesses of bubs system were using naim and atc?

 

Hmm, almost looks like things are calming down a bit.. oh well, "all good things..."

As for negative magazine press being reliable and positive press being unreliable, surely it's just as likely that another company paid the mag to diss ATC (or whatever brand is being dissed)? I mean, assuming the mags are as corruptible as you say they are. (Personally, I take mags with a pinch of salt as no review can ever truly be unbiased, but as long as you're aware of that it's possible to derive information - even, gasp, enjoyment! - and I essentially tend to trust reviews... If there were any blatant dodginess going down surely someone - rival mags, "straight" hifi companies - would've taken them up on it?)

Dunc

 

mags never diss any product pretty much - it maximises their revenue. I just dont find mag reviews that accurate and I have heard enough stories about what goes on to be very cynical. What hifi I beleive were sucessfully prosecuted many years ago for outright bribery and corruption.

I dont think they dissed the atcs - it was a glowing review but something slipped through the measurement net. look at salvatores high-endaudio web site for a look at the reviewers secret rules

Doubtless this post will drive markus apoplectic!

 

I have to say, yet again, that the conclusion part of the Hi-Fi News ATC review seemed totally fair enough to me. But then again, I've only heard ATC actives in a shop on two occasions, so I have very little practical experience with ATC, when compared with BBZ.

 

Naughty! You own active atcs.

So where are the calls for my return bub?