The Devil
IHTFP
Yes, but I find shop demos to be far more valuable than trying a speaker at home.
ATC SCM50 measured performance vs. high quality studio monitors
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The Devil
IHTFP
Absolutely right. Dealers are usually experts at getting a good sound, and if it sounds crap in a dealer, it can be safely dismissed (at length, years later).
It didnt sound "crap" bub - I identified an issue that I personally couldnt accept accross multiple setups and locations and the experiments I conducted indicated a high level of probability that it would be the same at home. In fact one of the dealers (Audio reflections) did sell from home at that time and it was a home setup. His own. Lifes too short to take everything home - you have to have a methodology.
The Devil
IHTFP
Not "crap"?
You think that a distorted midrange & weak bass is acceptable?
You think that a distorted midrange & weak bass is acceptable?
The Devil
IHTFP
Stunt bass is always a good thing to have.
I would have thought that a "distortion in the midrange" would be very bad thing indeed, particularly as this is the band where the human ear is most sensitive to distortion. Perhaps I'm too fussy?
I would have thought that a "distortion in the midrange" would be very bad thing indeed, particularly as this is the band where the human ear is most sensitive to distortion. Perhaps I'm too fussy?
pauldixonuk
pmc & bryston
Re: stunt bass
My PMC's can clear 11 london buses using bass cone propulsion alone. It's well known that ATC300's can only manage half a bus on full whack.
My PMC's can clear 11 london buses using bass cone propulsion alone. It's well known that ATC300's can only manage half a bus on full whack.
The Devil
IHTFP
Thanks, I thought I was right.brizonbiovizier said:
So, er, how has the ATC midrange dome driver come to be so widely revered in audio and studio applications, when in fact it is heavily-compromised sonically, with this distortion which you heard in a shop some years ago? This question troubles me greatly.
Perhaps as atc stretch its performance a bit far? From what Merlin was saying with less ambitious crossover points the distortion dissappears. So rather than being a fault it is just operating outside of its optimal range? Plus this distortion is probably not an issue for studio use. It might even make it easier. Plus some domestic users like extra edge - Naim sells very well by this means.
The Devil
IHTFP
It does seem extraordinary that these award-winning speakers are so badly flawed, yet only BBZ can detect this flaw during a shop demo several years ago.
The Devil
IHTFP
Sorry, I forgot about your trio of hi-fi friends who also detected the distortion.
It still doesn't explain the international acclaim which the ATCs have attracted. Is everybody else slightly hard of hearing, other than you and your three friends, several years ago, in a hi-fi shop?
It still doesn't explain the international acclaim which the ATCs have attracted. Is everybody else slightly hard of hearing, other than you and your three friends, several years ago, in a hi-fi shop?
3DSonics
away working hard on "it"
Hi,
I notice you continue to insist on making the same illogical argument again and again and it greatly troubles me that a man who is reasonably well educated (eg has passed more than 5 OL's) would make such an argument at all:
You make a claim. This claim is:
"ATC midrange dome driver is widely revered in audio and studio applications"
You do not specify what you mean by "widely".
The impression an unaware, impressionalble may gain from this statement is that ATC's are generally revered and that any studio that has not got them (which is probably better than 99% of the studios in the world and at least 90% of the top commercial ones) would love to have them but is too cheap to get them.
That is simply not true. ATC's are "revered" by a few individuals, they are accepted as well performing studio monitor by even fewer sound professionals, the vast majority of sound professionals and studio's choose to do without ATC.
So, I think the best available translation from "hyperbolic supersonic labour style spin" to "plain english" is:
"Some studios and sound professionals use ATC, most don't. There is only a minor cult of the 'adoradation of the ATC Midrange Driver' while most sound professionals find other solutions, most of the time large to very large format compression drivers preferable".
And this brings me right back to the core of the argument.
You make many claims about ATC's speakers and their "popularity" and well as performance which show only the most tenuous grasp of reality and seem derived mainly from marketing spin produced by ATC. When that is not enough you drop the same two names again and again, as if they where in any particular relevance.
So, you like ATC speakers. Fine, be my guest. Just please stick to observable facts when making public statements. You will probably be taken much more serious by others if you actually simply stuck to your guns based on YOUR OWN PERSONAL experience and preference, instead of trying to "oneupman" others by parroting marketing spin.
Ciao T
PS, I have noticed that you have pointedly avoided to comment comparing the documented measured performance of the SCM50 with the others mentioned, you mearly posted more baseless hyperbole, how about it, do a formal comparison and for the record, ATC is a regular advertising with fairly large adverts in HFN.
I notice you continue to insist on making the same illogical argument again and again and it greatly troubles me that a man who is reasonably well educated (eg has passed more than 5 OL's) would make such an argument at all:
The Devil said:
You make a claim. This claim is:
"ATC midrange dome driver is widely revered in audio and studio applications"
You do not specify what you mean by "widely".
The impression an unaware, impressionalble may gain from this statement is that ATC's are generally revered and that any studio that has not got them (which is probably better than 99% of the studios in the world and at least 90% of the top commercial ones) would love to have them but is too cheap to get them.
That is simply not true. ATC's are "revered" by a few individuals, they are accepted as well performing studio monitor by even fewer sound professionals, the vast majority of sound professionals and studio's choose to do without ATC.
So, I think the best available translation from "hyperbolic supersonic labour style spin" to "plain english" is:
"Some studios and sound professionals use ATC, most don't. There is only a minor cult of the 'adoradation of the ATC Midrange Driver' while most sound professionals find other solutions, most of the time large to very large format compression drivers preferable".
And this brings me right back to the core of the argument.
You make many claims about ATC's speakers and their "popularity" and well as performance which show only the most tenuous grasp of reality and seem derived mainly from marketing spin produced by ATC. When that is not enough you drop the same two names again and again, as if they where in any particular relevance.
So, you like ATC speakers. Fine, be my guest. Just please stick to observable facts when making public statements. You will probably be taken much more serious by others if you actually simply stuck to your guns based on YOUR OWN PERSONAL experience and preference, instead of trying to "oneupman" others by parroting marketing spin.
Ciao T
PS, I have noticed that you have pointedly avoided to comment comparing the documented measured performance of the SCM50 with the others mentioned, you mearly posted more baseless hyperbole, how about it, do a formal comparison and for the record, ATC is a regular advertising with fairly large adverts in HFN.
The Devil
IHTFP
Mr Thorsten, the comments which you make about ATC usage in studios is also unsubstantiated. Where do your figures come from?
I think your case is wildly overstated, and it's true to say that ATC actives have won many awards.
The rest of your babbling is ignored, sorry.
I think your case is wildly overstated, and it's true to say that ATC actives have won many awards.
The rest of your babbling is ignored, sorry.
The Devil
IHTFP
Ah, yes, it's all an evil conspiracy, cooked up between ATC and the magazines.
Does Billy Woodman have a white cat, underground lair, and say things like: "Goodbye, Mr Bond"?
Does Billy Woodman have a white cat, underground lair, and say things like: "Goodbye, Mr Bond"?
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