Uncle Ants
In Recordeo Speramus
Originally posted by DavidY80
I refer the honourable gentlemen to my previous reply: -
https://www.audio-forums.com/as-rediect/showthread.php?s=&postid=51865#post51865
My point exactly
Originally posted by DavidY80
I refer the honourable gentlemen to my previous reply: -
https://www.audio-forums.com/as-rediect/showthread.php?s=&postid=51865#post51865
Originally posted by ReJoyce
If he read that he would laugh out loud ... but he doesn't read this forum or any of the others. He hasn't got time.
I certainly dont take the view that ZG is or should be of significance to "the industry" or to RG, its just the recent suggestions of bias toward Nordost and the cable debates generally ought to be of some relevance to RG. Funnily since this pro-Nordost bias was discussed here the bias seemed to get ever more obvious in HiFi+.
I guess he is replying to the sort of issues raised before where a certain sub brand was pushed hard. This is the general view of forums in the rest of the industry. You guys sure have a false opinion of your importance.
I think thats assumptive. IMO the internet and forums in particular represent an increasingly (past year or two) popular resource for "real customers" trying to compare and contrast things such as audio equipment largely because magazines are increasingly percieved as either limited or biased (IMO).
Most of the audio industry also seems to think that the vast majority of posters aren't their real customers and having helped out in a shop I see where they are coming from. I would guess 90% of paying customers don't frequent a forum and those that do are infrequent posters not the hardcore.
Sure there are plenty of these kind of people on forums, but the forum medium appears better at self-regulation than magazines. Almost the opposite could be said for HiFi magazines - a few people with more knowledge than opinion promoting products based on the financial (or other) incentives available - unjustified promotion is as bad as unjustified derision.
In a nutshell full of people with more opinion than knowledge who constantly try to run their product down but never actually buy any of it.
Maybe they are missing a free R&D opportunity? Naturally chaff and wheat would require some sorting.
Personnnally I think this is a problem because the 10% that do post are proabbly the most enthusiastic enthusiasts, even though they tend not to spend a great deal of money. Don't believe me? How many audio professionals do you see regularly posting on these fora? If their really was something to gain wouldn't we see a representative from B&W, MF, Naim, Linn etc. here? Even Naim (whose forum has to the most commercially successful) keep their staff involvement to a minimum.
I think thats a little short sighted. Out of interest - what are the touchpoints then that the big players connect their brands and concepts to their customers - if its not via forums and magazines - then where/how? HiFi/AV shows? Shop fronts? TV ads?
Funnily enough most of the industry (the big players at least) also looks at the magazines and their readership in the same way as the forums, ie. they are now a minority interest group, not the bulk of their brad and butter customers.
Well I don't believe its about journo's getting free/cheap high-end equipment. However I think you would probably agree it is hard to deny pressure is on reviewers to present "certain" products in the best possible light? Part of this is not to shine too bright a light on certain other competing products. Can you honestly deny why people might feel there is an over emphasis on Nordost products in HiFi+ (based on the combo of articles and substantial advertising)? I'm not asking you to agree there is, just whether you agree it could be seen like that by any sane human?
As to integrity, well that is for the individual to judge. But giving a good review just to borrow a box for a bit to paraphrase Merlin only makes sense if the particular box sounds good and if it sounds good then it deserves a decent review ... make any sense?
Originally posted by ReJoyce
I never said he didn't read some forums some of the time. I think he has been pointed to several over the years and much of the time the posts on some forums will reinforce the point that there are a lot of posters on a mission. Jason
Originally posted by julian2002
so, if he's never participated in a forum, how is he qualified to comment on what goes on on them? the inference here is that he's just made it up for 'good' copy. does this happen with other things he writes?
Originally posted by greg
Well as I said it was just a feeling, I could be wrong. However I do think the implications of recent comments here regards RG's/HiFi+' independence vis a vis Nordost were worthy of his consideration. If I were him I would have read them. It does seem oddly coincidental to me that a mention of forums was mentioned soon after.(IMO).
Originally posted by wadia-miester
Mind you, Mr G got a serious savaging on another forum, which was more than the full measure shall we say
You guys sure have a false opinion of your importance. Most of the audio industry also seems to think that the vast majority of posters aren't their real customers and having helped out in a shop I see where they are coming from.
[snip]
In a nutshell full of people with more opinion than knowledge who constantly try to run their product down but never actually buy any of it.
I just merged the other thread into this one and deleted the duplicate postsOriginally posted by Tim F
Show's I'm awake! That was supposed to be a reply to a thread....
Originally posted by michaelab
Just to address one point about most consumers not being forum participants. It's almost certainly true, but I bet that a lot of people who never post will do a browse around the various forums to get some opinions and those opinions, are generally rated far higher than magazine reviews or dealer recommendations because they come from real punters.
I would suggest that the forums have a larger influence than many people might think.
Michael.
Originally posted by TonyL
Let's turn the tables on that one: what exactly is a magazine reviewer and what knowledge or credibility do they bring to the task? It seems to me that most of them simply wake up one day thinking they had magically been transformed into some kind of 'expert' overnight and come to the conclusion they should make a living out of this wonderful god-given new talent.
Originally posted by TonyL
The vast majority of audio reviewers I am aware of have no musical ability, no electronic design ability or knowledge, probably just a few years of fiddling about with home audio. At best they may have a little retail knowledge. In reality they are very much like the majority of people one finds on audio forums.
Originally posted by TonyL
The key difference, and it is a huge one, is that anyone who sets themselves up on a audio forum up as a self confessed 'expert' with so little of substance to back it up will be quickly and publicly laughed out of the room.
Originally posted by michaelab
I would suggest that the forums have a larger influence than many people might think.
Michael.
Originally posted by michaelab
That said, I'll still buy HiFi+ - I like the smell of the paper
Michael.
Originally posted by ReJoyce
Thats justnot my experience. The majority of buyers are not, by definition, enthusiasts. Some may become enthusiasts after finding a forum but most don't. They buy some gear, they have it installed, they enjoy listening to it and if they feel like they have gotten value for money they might buy some more or recommend their friends to visit the relevant dealers. This could be proved very easily by wasting a few saturdays in a shop, I have done I many times.
Originally posted by Uncle Ants
Hi Jason,
Just wondering where magazine readers fit into this picture? Presumably they are enthusiasts. Makes one wonder why manufacturers bother advertising in mags.
Surely some mag readerships (HiFi+ and HFW for starters, though possibly enthusiasts for different things) do consist of enthusiasts (or maybe gadget porn addicts). Manufacturers advertise in these mags, so presumably they take enthusiasts a little bit seriously, if not their views.