Musing following some cable posts...

[Effem]

This company has

http://www.audusa.com/eupen.htm

They have either recently changed their website or it's on the blink

 

[sideshowbob]

I remember exactly the page you are thinking of, it came up before in one of these debates. It certainly did not provide any independently verified measurements establishing audible differences, and neither did it publish any ABX test results. I think we can be quite certain that if it had, Audusa would be making it the centrepiece of their marketing, as they would be the first cable company in history to have provided such evidence.

there are some cable manufacturers that publish objective measurements for all their products, there are some cable manufacturers that have conducted double blind ABX tests.

Show me one example of one cable company publishing independently verifiable test results.

Next.

-- Ian

 

[Effem]

I really don't have the time right now to go searching, but I will

 

[Shiner]

New alloys are being formulated now that move well away from the sameyness sounds of just copper or just silver wrapped in familiar dielectrics

I was wondering if you would point us to links relating to this as well please.?
Thanks

 

[ADPully]

Ian Do any cartridge or amplifier manufacterers publish independent test results similar to what you are asking to see on cables? If so please can you show me lead me to an example?

 

[Effem]

Ian Do any cartridge or amplifier manufacterers publish independent test results similar to what you are asking to see on cables? If so please can you show me lead me to an example?

A very valid question indeed.

All this fuss about cables, yet the same people will buy any another component, take it out of the box and bung it in the rack no questions asked. How do they KNOW that what is sitting on their shelf has exactly the same performance curves as published in the literature? Do they measure to make sure? Are you at all certain that what was reviewed in the mags is the same article before you? I am not for one minute even remotely suggesting that specially selected samples are sent for review of course.

 

[Arrowhead]

A very valid question indeed.

All this fuss about cables, yet the same people will buy any another component, take it out of the box and bung it in the rack no questions asked. How do they KNOW that what is sitting on their shelf has exactly the same performance curves as published in the literature? Do they measure to make sure? Are you at all certain that what was reviewed in the mags is the same article before you? I am not for one minute even remotely suggesting that specially selected samples are sent for review of course.

Hmm- seem to remember a case in point in the late eighties, when about the only thing a certain product that appeared on dealers shelves had in common with the review sample, was the case.

Graham.

 

[sideshowbob]

Ian Do any cartridge or amplifier manufacterers publish independent test results similar to what you are asking to see on cables? If so please can you show me lead me to an example?

You still owe me a public apology. Until you give it consider yourself ignored. That's twice you've been asked now, you really shouldn't need to be prompted.

I can point you to lots of measurements of amps and cartridges, yes. Stereophile and Hi-Fi World, for example, publish independent test results every month of the products they review. If an amplifier manufacturer claims a THD of 0.1% into a certain load, that claim is easily measurable. Effem, on the other hand, makes lots of assertions and offers no substantiation for any of them.

The other difference, of course, is that amplifier and cartridge design involves real electrical design and engineering, unlike plaiting a bit of wire from RS Components.

But, until I get that apology, this is the last time I will acknowledge you at all.

-- Ian

 

[Paul Ranson]

But if you say all cables sound the same, then we are back to square one...

I find all cables (given their suitability for the task) tend to sound the same and there are extremely good reasons for this, you dissent. I have no problem with this except your failure to accommodate differing points of view. This is zealotry.

I have no problem with whatever makes you happy. But do not generalise an internal experience into external 'truth' otherwise you will get challenged. And responding with 'deaf or stupid' just devalues your position.

Paul

 

[Effem]

Effem, on the other hand, makes lots of assertions and offers no substantiation for any of them.

Correction, I have made only one. The same one you ran away from.

The other difference, of course, is that amplifier and cartridge design involves real electrical design and engineering, unlike plaiting a bit of wire from RS Components.

I don't plait wires from RS Components. Do you know as fact who does?

But, until I get that apology, this is the last time I will acknowledge you at all.

-- Ian

Humility is not your strong point is it?

 

[melorib]

I find all cables (given their suitability for the task) tend to sound the same and there are extremely good reasons for this, you dissent. I have no problem with this except your failure to accommodate differing points of view. This is zealotry.

I have no problem with whatever makes you happy. But do not generalise an internal experience into external 'truth' otherwise you will get challenged. And responding with 'deaf or stupid' just devalues your position.

Paul

You call me a liar, delusioned, etc, when I say cables sound different, why shouldnt I have the right to answer accordingly...

 

[melorib]

Have fun...

http://www.essex.ac.uk/ese/research/audio_lab/malcolmspubdocs/G3 HFN Essex_Echo_(cables_1985).pdf

 

[dcathro]

I really don't have the time right now to go searching, but I will

Don't bother you will be wasting your time. There has been no published data of ABX tests supporting differences in cables.

There also has been no data published that proves differences in amplifiers, or CD players.

There are a number of people who believe that the only real differences are in speakers, and the objective evidence supports their view.

 

[sideshowbob]

Correction, I have made only one. The same one you ran away from.

Do you want me to go back through the thread and list them all?

You are on extremely thin ice here.

I don't plait wires from RS Components.

Maybe Maplins. You certainly don't make the wire you sell.

Humility is not your strong point is it?

He called me a tosser, because he disagrees with me, and despite the fact that I have nowhere insulted him. Why the hell should I respond to him? This is sod all to do with my humility and everything to do with basic good manners.

Have you had any luck with this yet:

there are some cable manufacturers that publish objective measurements for all their products, there are some cable manufacturers that have conducted double blind ABX tests.

Show me one example of one cable company publishing independently verifiable test results.

-- Ian

 

[mr cat]

happy days...

 

[Effem]

Do you want me to go back through the thread and list them all?

Yep that would be helpful

Maybe Maplins. You certainly don't make the wire you sell.

Not Maplins either. You lose again. I don't have the facilities to make wire from scratch, never said I do, as it is made by a specialist source dedicated to the task. Does that then give you the right to denigrate everything by inference?

He called me a tosser, because he disagrees with me, and despite the fact that I have nowhere insulted him. Why the hell should I respond to him? This is sod all to do with my humility and everything to do with basic good manners.

Now here I do agree with you that the word "tosser" was entirely uncalled for, but I can entirely understand the author's frustrations. But this is only a friendly discussion with differering viewpoints, not a life and death struggle and only a bloomin' stereo were all talking about after all.

Have you had any luck with this yet:

Have you had any luck finding the scientific evidence to prove that placebo and expectation are entirely responsible for differences in cables yet, more specifically though how many repeat cycles of placebo and expectation events have been objectively recorded so that you can cite them as the sole cause of subjects hearing differences in cables? If you too make claims then please do us all the kindness of backing it up with some form of proof.

 

[Arrowhead]

Hehe, wish you lot would pack it in, so I could get on with some work.

Graham.

 

[Effem]

Hehe, wish you lot would pack it in, so I could get on with some work.

Graham.

If a certain invidual would only say one word like "maybe" then we can all have a break from such a futile pointless head against brick wall excercise and make some progress.

I reckon I could swim the Atlantic with less effort

 

[Effem]

I still remember the Great 1000+ Poster cable debate on HFC around 4 years ago and have no wish to repeat that again. Life is too short

 

[mr cat]

I still remember the Great 1000+ Poster cable debate on HFC around 4 years ago and have no wish to repeat that again. Life is too short

then maybe you should logout and go for a walk...