naim...load of tosh??

So Marco, would you say that if I didn't like the sound of the the original CDS when I heard it at Heathrow some years back, then it wouldn't be worth my while auditioning the CDS3/XPS2

 

I'm sure it did it more than once, but I cannot remember what the other CDs were. Fortunately your LP12 appears immune.

(20 years ago, or a bit less, I went to the Heathrow show. Exposure were using an LP12 and Isobariks. Some chaps came in and asked for a recent digitally recorded soul album to be put on. Digitus. I've associated the sound with bad digital ever since. Doesn't mean I'm right though)

Paul

 

I see the same old faces playing the same old Tune, and just wait........... he comes Mr Pitbull....................

 

You asked Tone to come and judge whether you had room effect bass boom. Tone is king of the room effect bass boom. Hence irony in spades (and shovels).

Paul

 

Firstly, Alan Ball heard my system ages ago when it sounded very different to the way it does now. So many things (mains, amount of Mana, equipment/speaker positioning, and much more) have changed since he last heard it. I'm confident if he were to hear it again (not that he's likely to get the chance) he'd have an entirely different view. Furthermore, the PA thing is not what he told me, or what he reported on the Naim forum at the time. It's about time some people had the honesty to say what they really think to your face, and that includes you! I seem to remember you said some very different things to me about my system when you were there. Do you wish me to remind you?

Secondly, the one and only time you heard my system the room had just been trashed by a fire, the Mana was all out of tune, the kit was full of soot, and it had been switched off for hours. Of course, none of this matters to you, does it? You have no idea whatsoever how my system sounds now. I take your point about large speakers in small rooms, but I like the effect in my room and can assure you there is no longer any 'boom' (not that I thought there was much, if any, in the first place) since the speakers have been moved to the other side of the room. The room is also bigger since the water tank cupboard has been removed.

Thirdly, the ONLY person, apart from my regular friends, who's heard my system recently is John Toon - and you know how impressed he was. His review of my system was spot on, and is exactly how it sounds.

I liked your system, but I think it would be far better with Stealth monoblocks driving passive ATC 100s (are they available in passive format?). IMO, this would make it less clinical sounding and get back some of the boogie factor. The active set-up is great for creating a sense of realism, but the on-board ATC amps are nothing special, musically.

Marco.

 

Paul

It is quite interesting, I'm not 100% happy with the CDS2, which is where the problem must lie if the vinyl wasn't exhibiting it. To be honest, I couldn't hear the 'hash', but I do have a little high frequency hearing loss.

The trouble is I've never heard a better (to my imperfect ears) CDP ever, and I suspect that this problem is not solvable unless one of the higher resolution formats, preferably SACD IMO, takes off.

The thing about the ATCs is that they tell things how they are, which is not necessarily how you, the listener, might want things to be. The beef is not with the speakers, but rather with either the CDS2 or the recording engineer(s).

 

Re: Paul

James, I do understand this fully the CDS2 does exhibit a lot of this, plus all that lost detail too, you know the right thing to do, Call dynorod, to give a good shafting

 

I know that the ATC MOSFET amps are nothing special in themselves, but they don't need to be because of the elegance of the ATC design.

Each amplifier is carefully matched to its driver; there is no crossover to contend with, and they have huge 'headroom'.

I don't think that any passive system with power amp and crossover could ever hope to come anywhere near the level of performance that the active ATC monitors have.

 

No, not at all...if you could be bothered. There's nothing whatsoever at the moment that makes me want to listen to other makes of equipment, not when the music's sounding so good! So why should I bother?

As an aside, regarding the CDS3 you mention, from what I've heard recently at friend of a friend's house who's recently bought a CDS3/552/500, I reckon I've got about 90% of the performance of a CDS3 by just having the XPS2 and the new Burndy. The rest I can live without, and I'll get much more improvement when I hike the CDS2 up to Phase 7 shortly.

Marco.

P.S Paul, thanks for clearing things up. I didn't realise Tony had that kind of 'rep'.

 

One thing puzzles me.

Why do you guys get off on other people giving favourable critiques of your domestic setups.

I mean it's your ears that matter at the end of the day. Seekin other peoples approval is distinctly round world don't you think?

Just listen to the music and enjoy for heaven's sake, I very much doubt that any of the systems belonging to the warring factions are really worth writing home about anyway.

 

Favourable critiques are of no value; fair comment is fair comment and can be helpful to sort out problems in the system. Remarks such as WM's old mantra of 'ATCs have no bass' are distinctly unhelpful.

When all is said and done your system has to please you and no-one else (well maybe the wife/significant other).

 

Ah I see, you are satisfied with what you have and therefor have no need to explore the possible improvements an 861 or 390s might bring to your system. It's a bit different from claiming that the naim is better though Marco don't you think.

Ah but not too satisfied to buy some more iron, just happy enough to write off alternative electronics as pointless. Seems a very strange way of going about things to me Marco, a typical example of terminal NaimeeManatitis to me.

 

If you knew anything about multi-phasing Mana, Merlin, it might help this discussion. FWIW, I'll probably go up to phase 9 at some future point, but I'm reasonably happy with what I have right now.

The French have a saying "Everyone's wife is the best-looking"

This is what a lot of these discussions are about.

 

Marco, only happy to confirm Paul findings

Actualy James, I think it was your ATC's lack of bass, rather than all If I recall correctly, which I feel is due to your rather yank sized room.
But again all boils down to what each other uses as a reference, and basical if your happy with your set up, then for you it is the right choice, not me

 

Speaking for myself, all I seek, if anything is to be said at all, is an HONEST account of what someone thinks.

What I dislike is being told by someone, for example, that my speakers are 'gorgeous', and that the system is great, apart from the power amps being a limiting factor, one minute, and then when things turn sour, all of a sudden it's a 'foghorn'.

Marco.

 

Merlin,

if I'm au courant, you have sold your Tact-based system because you wanted to integrate a turntable into your set-up and the Tact is not ideal for that (although a phono stage and an A/D card would have solved the integration problem?). You have sold the turntable that made you wish you had one.

You bought Sim Audio stuff and have since sold it.

Do you know what system you'll end up with? How do you go about choosing your new system?

 

Merlin, what's your problem? I'm not writing off anything, merely indicating my personal preferences. If I didn't know better, I'd think you are on a wind-up

Btw, the devil's right about your lack of knowledge about Mana. As an aside, when I was on holiday in Germany recently, I heard probably the best system I've ever heard...Hermann's system(from the Mana forum). Multi-phase Mana? Just a tad... Stealth monos? Yes siree. Briks on Phase 18? Yup. What a riot that was!

Marco.

 

Oh Marco, Marco. You take it all so personally. Your speakers look very nice indeed. They are in the wrong room, that's all.

WM, try not to be so silly about the ATCs. They are hardly struggling in my room: some of my irresponsible mates recently recorded 106 dBA at the sofa while I was out. I haven't heard your system, but I guess that you are used to overblown room-boom, then accurate bass will sound quieter to you.

 

FWIW Bub's system is bang on in the bass department.

If it were my system and my room I'd probably try and make it image better. But that's my little hangup...

If anybody wants to come and hear my old clunker there's a window of opportunity this weekend. Just off the A43 in South Northants.

Paul

 

Hey Marco, I am sorry for the wind up, it's just I was trying to get you to show that you choose not to look outside of the sacred circle and therefore that your experience is possibly less rounded than some. Sorry if you take offence, but you can see why I would doubt your reference to Absolute Sounds demming the ML to you. No hard feelings.