Nice Big Speakers
- Thread starter merlin
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Re: Re: Re: Nice Big Speakers
(We are feeling crotchety today aren't we)
I agree they do sound better than several floorstanders (e.g. the Kef 203 that WM so religiously mistypes) - but they still don't do scale.....and thank you, but they did have a suitable amplifier, my M3Originally posted by lowrider
...still they do better than many floorstanders at the same price or higher, just read the tests, or better, listen to a pair with a suitable amplifier...
(We are feeling crotchety today aren't we)
Well there was me trying to be sensible
Let's get this out in the open. I have no doubt you are very happy with a system comprising a number of items I have used, and discarded as compromised. As for music through the Rels -plllllease! How do you hear a leading edge through 30% THD. I have sadly not had the opportunity to listen to your system, but those who have and have spoken with me say it's OK - nothing more.
But the important thing is that YOU like it - after all that's what it's all about, getting into the music. And yes I can do that on my "crappy" £1,300 system
The important thing is not spending time on internet forums making claims like you did earlier, and desperately looking for approval from so called audiophiles whom you invite over to ingratiate.No one slagged off our setup - merely by reference highlighted it's possible shortcomings. As ever you took this personally which is a shame as many of us have helped you with your buying decisions.
Still, maybe it's something to do with the Greeks
Re: Re: Re: Re: Nice Big Speakers
So you know how they sound, and can imagine what a pair of subwoofers actively crossedover can do to further improve things...
Who wouldnt feel crotchety having to put up with deep bass experts with 7 feet wide rooms, who wont take a different opinion/experience without stating stupid things like 30% distortion wich they have never measured, comparing my carefully put toguether system, (not the best in the world for sure, still better than most I have heard), with crap £1.300 sat/subs, etc...
Originally posted by GrahamN
I agree they do sound better than several floorstanders (e.g. the Kef 203 that WM so religiously mistypes) - but they still don't do scale.....and thank you, but they did have a suitable amplifier, my M3
(We are feeling crotchety today aren't we)
So you know how they sound, and can imagine what a pair of subwoofers actively crossedover can do to further improve things...
Who wouldnt feel crotchety having to put up with deep bass experts with 7 feet wide rooms, who wont take a different opinion/experience without stating stupid things like 30% distortion wich they have never measured, comparing my carefully put toguether system, (not the best in the world for sure, still better than most I have heard), with crap £1.300 sat/subs, etc...
wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
Graham,
mistype or not, there are still seriously dire
How r u btw?, I know you've been pre occupied with important issues, how is that proceeding?
mistype or not, there are still seriously dire
How r u btw?, I know you've been pre occupied with important issues, how is that proceeding?
sideshowbob
Trisha
The majority of big speakers aren't very good, neither are the majority of small speakers, and on the whole most sat/sub setups I've heard have been stunt-fi rather than hi-fi. Small floorstanders are generally the worst of both worlds. I hope that's enough generalisations to be going on with ;-)
My experience is certainly that orchestral scale requires big-arse speakers, or concrete monitors and enormous subs that cost an arm and a leg. Thank god I don't listen to much orchestral music.
-- Ian
My experience is certainly that orchestral scale requires big-arse speakers, or concrete monitors and enormous subs that cost an arm and a leg. Thank god I don't listen to much orchestral music.
-- Ian
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nice Big Speakers
Err Antonio, check out Hifi news, Tom Nousane's tests and many others before getting on your Portuguese Pony. Rels make noise. Your strata's just might manage 70db at 20hz with a favourable tail wind. A cheap PA bin will give considerably better bass!
No one compared my £1,300 system with your carefully selected group of AV components, read again Amigo. :moony:
Err Antonio, check out Hifi news, Tom Nousane's tests and many others before getting on your Portuguese Pony. Rels make noise. Your strata's just might manage 70db at 20hz with a favourable tail wind. A cheap PA bin will give considerably better bass!
No one compared my £1,300 system with your carefully selected group of AV components, read again Amigo.
:moony:Graham,
I am not sure whether you meant me or not, but I still do believe in source first. However I am not sure quantifying things in monetary terms is the best way of doing the source first thing. I think the quality of the source and associated equipment should be the important factor and not the cost. As long as you have a high quality source then putting big expensive speakers on the end is great as far as I am concerned.
I would be less happy however to have a system consisting of high quality, revealing speakers and amps with a lower quality source as I dont believe you will get the best of the system as it will be limited by the source.
Does that make any sense
I am still having trouble getting my original point understood. I'll try again.
Adding a pair of subs to standmounts like the EAIIs or my response 1SCs will certainly give deeper bass which can be very worthwhile (even if it is very hard to integrate them properly). However, as the small standmounters still receive the full range signal as before, and they only have small relatively low power handling drive units, the total loudness and dynamics of the system is still going to be compromised compared to a floorstander with multiple drive units. This means that listeners like GrahamN who want their system to be able to reproduce 110db crescendos to obtain a lifelike classical music experience are going to wind up disappointed.
Whatever you say, this is one of the main compromises of the mini monitor/sub filling in the bottom octaves approach. For those not looking for that full on classical (or rock) experience, this is not an issue. For others it makes this approach a non starter.
Is this really so hard to grasp, or am I just crap at explaining things
wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
Robbo, has Graham dropped off 8db from his Normal realistic listening levels then ?
Originally posted by Robbo
I am still having trouble getting my original point understood. I'll try again.
Adding a pair of subs to standmounts like the EAIIs or my response 1SCs will certainly give deeper bass which can be very worthwhile (even if it is very hard to integrate them properly). However, as the small standmounters still receive the full range signal as before, and they only have small relatively low power handling drive units, the total loudness and dynamics of the system is still going to be compromised compared to a floorstander with multiple drive units. This means that listeners like GrahamN who want their system to be able to reproduce 110db crescendos to obtain a lifelike classical music experience are going to wind up disappointed.
Whatever you say, this is one of the main compromises of the mini monitor/sub filling in the bottom octaves approach. For those not looking for that full on classical (or rock) experience, this is not an issue. For others it makes this approach a non starter.
Is this really so hard to grasp, or am I just crap at explaining things
"mini monitor/sub" we are getting closer now, this terminology I like better... :MILD:
I see now it is me who's having trouble getting my original point understood...
I use the active xover in my Krell processor to keep frequencies bellow 60hz away from the EAII, into the Stratas, so the not so small power handling of 250 watts RMS is not waisted playing thre most demanding bass, significantely increasing the speakers dynamics and decreasing distortion, by the way, they use the Scan Speak 18W8545 "powerfull" 6.5 inches mid-woofer with an equal size passive radiator in a 12 liter non parallel walls, very solid wood box...
So the combo is indeed able to reproduce crescendos and obtain a quite lifelike classical music experience, again I am not arguing about quality and personal taste...
As for integration, the way I have mine setup it is seamless, at least to my and my guests ears, it is much easier to integrate at lower frequencies and with little overlap, the filters are high pass 12db, low pass 24bd, the difference is fairly compensated by the natural roll-off of the speakers, does it reproduce 20hz with zero distotion, probably not, at least if I try to play very loud, but as I only care about music, there isnt much important content at those frequencies that I care to hear...
Also, good as your Response 1SCs are, believe me, the EAII sound almost like large floorstanders in comparison, better or worst is not the issue right now, just bass and dynamics...
Ah! Of course I forgot you are using an AV system. Filtering out below 60hz will make quite a difference to the system headroom. Enough for the likes of GrahamN? I doubt it.
In any case, I think my point is still valid as most users on this forum would only be interested in using the mini monitor/sub approach as I describe it and wouldnt want to route the precious signal through an AV processor.
As for 1SCs vs EAIIs, well yes they go louder because they are bigger However, this is really irrelevent to the discussion as IMO the whole point of the thread is to discuss why classical lovers who want that full on experience would likely prefer big speakers. I dont think anybody was really discussing your system apart from yourself!
I really dont understand why you are getting worked up about terminology, I was using the word satellites it to describe the function of the 1SCs when I had a sub. The word satellites has no bearing on the quality of the items used. You were again assuming that I was talking about your system and making a judgement about it. Dont worry, I'm not that interested in it, honest
In any case, I think my point is still valid as most users on this forum would only be interested in using the mini monitor/sub approach as I describe it and wouldnt want to route the precious signal through an AV processor.
As for 1SCs vs EAIIs, well yes they go louder because they are bigger
However, this is really irrelevent to the discussion as IMO the whole point of the thread is to discuss why classical lovers who want that full on experience would likely prefer big speakers. I dont think anybody was really discussing your system apart from yourself!I really dont understand why you are getting worked up about terminology, I was using the word satellites it to describe the function of the 1SCs when I had a sub. The word satellites has no bearing on the quality of the items used. You were again assuming that I was talking about your system and making a judgement about it. Dont worry, I'm not that interested in it, honest
Have you heard a similar system, why do you doubt my word, of course I feel crotchety when someone I dont know doubts my word...
Obviously we where discussing different approaches, one you dont know but still feel confortable to ridicule...
Now I am puzzled, we are discussing speaker size, but now it doesnt matter...
REALLY !!!
So on a system with Wilson Watt/Puppies plus a Watch Dog subwoofer, you would call the W/P satellites... :newbie:
No, I'd call the Wilson Watts satellites which use very similar drivers to your SF's
Antonio, I'm very sorry that you seem to have been upset so much by this thread. Why not chill out and listen to some tunes (or better still watch a music DVD!)
leonard smalls
GufmeisterGeneral
See, haven't I always said?
BIG speakers are where its at
That's why I hate LS3/5as...
BIG speakers are where its at
That's why I hate LS3/5as...
Big speakers are good, except that I personally always approach speakers with more than 2 drive units with caution and a bit scepticism i.e. do the drive units integrate seamlessly.
Bass that you can hear and that contributes to the musical experience is the name of the game (or the accoustics if it's acoustic music), but not that bothered about being able to feel it.
Bass that you can hear and that contributes to the musical experience is the name of the game (or the accoustics if it's acoustic music), but not that bothered about being able to feel it.
