Notes about notes

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R.K.R - a gentleman and a scholar

Originally posted by Marco
Jason, I should imagine James receives ample financial reward for performing his admirable skills.

Marco.

Maybe he does but he has had to work bloody hard to get there and similar efforts would probably have rewarded him more in another field.

Cheers

Jason
 
The problem with having a discussion of any kind with Marco is that it is like trying to knit with jelly. As soon as you make a valid point which he can't answer, he's off. The exact same thing happened when I asked him about emotion in music and the master tape.

This is what happens when you rely on other people's opinions to form your own.

Jason, no, not taking the pee, but no time as yet.
 
Damn tings.

Somone's operating a cement mixer outside today.... I'm sure they're real and not an Isobarik artifact. Pianos make noises other than notes when they are played, and these noises are audible throughout the track but most noticeably at 1.13ish as the chord fades after 'die'. FWIW. Turn it up!

I'll be redoing the ESL test this coming weekend. And then getting on with enjoying all that alleged holographic imaging.

Paul
 
James

Originally posted by The Devil

Roy hears what he hears. I hear what I hear. You hear what you hear; and so it is.


Hi again. Well do you or do you not hear 'tings' on the RKR Elvis Presley track? It's a straight question, yes or no?

No.

When I wrote the above it was intended to indicate that even if I can't hear them, it doesn't mean they're not there, and if Roy can hear them, it doesn't mean he's trying to dupe anyone.

The only person I know who can hear anything on that track which might be described as a 'ting' is Paul Ranson, and only through his Isobariks - the 'tings' disappeared when he put the Quad electrostatics in instead. This suggests that these 'tings' may in fact be an isobarik problem, and nothing more than that.

That sounds perfectly feasible. The point is, however, I'm not bothered whether I can hear 'tings' or not. Of far more significance/importance to me, is the fact that my system's performance has hugely increased since installing the separate spurs and blank case fuses.

There is a serious point to this. It may well be that multiple spurs are actually a bad thing: Julian Vereker thought so, and there are mutterings on the Naim forum to the same effect. The reason it may be bad is that it appears that there is no common Earth with this arrangement.

I resolved the issue of a common Earth by using a single, dedicated Earth via a series of copper Earth rods plunged into the garden wired together in a 'star-Earth' formation with hi-grade cable. A length of that cable is then fed underground to the CU, and from there, it is then daisy-chained to each individual spur and hard-wired hydra; thus all equipment connected to the hydras share a common Earth from the Earth rods. The difference of doing just that alone is in my opinion easy to hear.

Multiple spurs are expensive things to install, and a whole heap of hassle, too. I can understand that if you've forked out for it and gone through all the hassle, then you might not be too willing to admit to yourself that they were in fact a total waste of time and money.

That's definitely not the case.

To my ears, James, 10mm multiple spurs work, and they work very well indeed.

In my opinion it represents one of the most significant and cost-effective upgrades I have ever experienced, along with Mana. As you're an experienced Mana user, James, you'll be able to appreciate the level of improvement when I state that the effect of using 10mm dedicated multiple spurs, together with a common dedicated Earth, is of a similar magnitude to when installing, say, five Soundstages your complete system will benefit from; however, the nature of the *effect*, compared to Mana, is different.

If you think I'm kidding myself on, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but I assure you that is not the case. The fact of the matter is you'll never know for sure unless you try it yourself.

Marco.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R.K.R - a gentleman and a scholar

Originally posted by ReJoyce

Maybe he does but he has had to work bloody hard to get there and similar efforts would probably have rewarded him more in another field.

And your point is, Jason?

Why on earth are we discussing the details of James' profession in a discussion involving musical notes and mains upgrades?

Marco.
 
Bub

You mentioned earlier on during the thread that I had "ducked out"

I am guessing that you have asked me to sit down and listen for the tings.

Let me state here and now and before this ensemble that no way am I going to sit down and strain my hearing to listen for a bloody ting.

Anyone who even thinks of sitting down and listening for a ting is just a plain sad nerd without a life.

Even talking about it is sad.

Regards

Mick
 
Mick, that's fair enough. The point is, however, if you can hear them, the tings should be obvious.

One shouldn't have to 'strain one's hearing'.

Personally, I rather more enjoy the music on the accompanying CD.

Regards,
Marco.
 
Marco

RKR sent me his test disc and i gave up quarter way through.

A typical question was .... can you tell how many voices are singing in the choir.

I could not do that even listening live and to try and do it listening to a bloody test CD is plain pathetic,

This is a classic case of being over consumed by the technology rather than the music.

I just think this entire subject is nerdy.

Try talking about something interesting like watching a snail crawl up a wall.........I mean for goodness sake, how sad can it get.

Regards

Mick
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R.K.R - a gentleman and a scholar

Originally posted by Marco
And your point is, Jason?

Marco.

My point is that you were besmirching Bub by claiming "the notion of wanting to help others without reward is perhaps not one you're familiar with" or that he wouldn't understand an altruistic gesture. I thought that a bit rich considering Bubs carreer.



Will somebody please send me the disc? I am feeling very left out here especially now I hear that there are notes on what to listen out for. Out of interest are you ever asked if you are enjoying the music? Or whether it sounds like a band playing in time? Or is are the only tests related to tings, number of voices, number of hands clapping etc.?


Cheers

Jason
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Originally posted by Paul Ranson
Pianos make noises other than notes when they are played, and these noises are audible throughout the track but most noticeably at 1.13ish as the chord fades after 'die'. FWIW. Turn it up!
Most commonly IME the pianist's fingernails clattering on the keys - yet another case of too bloody close on the miking. Sounds as if this isn't what you're talking about though if it's in a fading chord. The other common extraneous sound (other than the pianist's alleged "singing" - why do they have to do this, Gould was bad enough, but Kovacevich now seems to have gone the same way big time) is from the pedal mechanism - particularly when releasing the sustain after a long held chord.
 
Ah but Graham, that's all part of the sound of a real pianist playing a real piano allthough I could do without the "humming along" that some pianists do (unconciously btw).

You wouldn't want to have an acoustic guitar (or double bass etc) recording without hearing the players fingers moving up and down the fretboard would you? ;)

Michael.
 
In the case of the backing singers they don't all sing the same tune, being able to follow the tunes is a classic Flat Earthism.

Using this type of approach to differentiate hifi seems way less nerdy and more relevant than worrying about greyness, slam or 'detail'.

The backing singers track is 'Times Have Changed' by Irma Thomas, and the infamous tings are on 'I'll Take You Home Again Kathleen' sung by Elvis Presley.

Paul
 
Re: Marco

Originally posted by mick parry

I could not do that even listening live and to try and do it listening to a bloody test CD is plain pathetic,

This is a classic case of being over consumed by the technology rather than the music.

Mick, old chap, I'm not disagreeing with you per se, but the whole point of Roy's test CD is it was primarily intended for Roy himself to use when on his rounds installing mains spurs. The 'listening notes' are included for others as only a bit of fun to test whether or not one's own system is capable of revealing certain information. If you'd rather not indulge in any of that, then one can relax and just enjoy the music, presuming of course it is to one's taste.

Basically, the music contained on the CD is very familiar to Roy (to the point of him knowing every detail on it intimately) and how it sounds on his system at home; thus it acts as a musical reference with which he can judge how other people's systems sound before and after his modifications. It is, in effect, the tool of his 'trade', so to speak.

In my mind, there's nothing pathetic about that.

Regards,
Marco.
 
Dem big tings, liddel tings, ebry ting gonna be alright...

Hmmm... I must be a sad git 'cause when Roy sent me the cd about a year or so back I did try to hear those self same tings and I couldn't hear them through my Neats that I had at the time nor through my headphones.

Now, we all know that headphones are perhaps the easiest way to get ultra-high resolution sound for beer money, and yet despite all of this I just couldn't hear those tings.

I respect the work that Roy has put into his mains experiments and his advice is normally top rate. However, I have a theory that the 'tings' are actually something in Roy's room which resonates at or around the frequency of that particular bit in the track.

I'm going to (sad tho' it is to admit) have a second listen for dem tings tonight, and if I can't hear them (post RKR spur, etc.) I will be convinced that I never will...

Maybe Roy got da ears mon, but dat ting don work for me...

jtc ting ting ting
 
Originally posted by Paul Ranson
In the case of the backing singers they don't all sing the same tune, being able to follow the tunes is a classic Flat Earthism.

Paul


Makes more sense now, I thought it was some sort of <urrrggh> imaging <spits vile taste from mouth> test.

Cheers

Jason <as yet unknown tingage>
 

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