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ak,
in order to privilidged enough to disagree with merlin you have to make the cheltenham pilgrimage, pick your choice of interconnect from tony's big box of vanquished american elephant wangs and then... well that would be telling but i'd advise a copy of liver extraction for dummies down the back of your pants.
cheers


julian
 
Paul, you old tease, consider what wise words of wisdom confusious would dictate in a situation like this.........................
Those with challanged vanquised elephant wangs, seek solice in copious amounts of ferrious structures, which are 'Rung' by ringers for the benefit of those weenies with micro penises and long estabished aspirations of intellectual grandos & mammoth ego massaging.
So the Paul, Tim Hennman, have you finialy got round to molesting his rackets yet?
 
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Although he's gonna come along and correct me, that he is not a surgeon and is in fact a physician, although with the steady hands, and the hours of setup required for all that mana, he coulda made a fine surgeon.
 
i never quite got the distinction. a doctor is a doctor is a doctor is someone who plays far too much golf.
cheers


julian
 
dat19 said:
...you have a good pair of speakers, and they work equally well on the factory stands.
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So you've heard them on Mana stands, and compared the result with the factory stands, have you?

No, I thought not.

Mana is a small company who don't advertise/market very much. The fact that the reviews are 10 years old means nothing: the product hasn't changed and there is no incentive for the mags to re-review it.

Mana usage is more widespread than you think: for instance Paul Messenger has used it for years, and even the arch-stand-sceptic Ken Kessler has confessed to using Mana. There's also a guy posting on pink fish at the moment, who has his recording studio Mana'd-up. Paul McCartney has also used it, but I don't know whether he still does or not.

But of course it makes no difference whatsoever: we are all imagining it, etc.
 
analoguekid said:
A Dr is like the messiah but the surgeons are like gods.
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A physician knows everything and does nothing, a surgeon knows nothing and does everything, and a pathologist knows everything and does everything, but too late.

And I detest golf.
 
The Devil said:
So you've heard them on Mana stands, and compared the result with the factory stands, have you?
Click to expand...

Why would I compare them? The only interesting parameter in a speaker stand is height because of it's impact on how the speaker interacts with the room.

What a speaker stand is made of, whether it is rigid or not, and how many levels it has, whether there should be spikes etc is neither here nor there - for each stand parameter, people will assume one dogmatic opinion and run up against other people with exactly the opposite dogmatic opinion.. It's all about belief and not proof.

Now, coming back to phase 11.. You're speakers were designed to sit about a foot off the ground, the higher you push them, the more you move into the "off-axis" frequency response. It is no surprise to me that your speakers sound different as they edge toward the ceiling, the point is that it is not mana that is making the difference, but simple acoustics, you could get the same effect with another stand of the same height.

That you don't like ATC 100's (on factory stands) on-axis suggests that you bought the wrong speaker to start with..

Mana usage is more widespread than you think: for instance Paul Messenger has used it for years, and even the arch-stand-sceptic Ken Kessler has confessed to using Mana. There's also a guy posting on pink fish at the moment, who has his recording studio Mana'd-up. Paul McCartney has also used it, but I don't know whether he still does or not.
Click to expand...

If Mana had real sonic benefits, there would be widespread adoption.

But of course it makes no difference whatsoever: we are all imagining it, etc.
Click to expand...

There is a simple explanation for why your speakers sound different on increasing levels of Mana and it has nothing to do with the Mana itself - you've simply chosen to believe that Mana is a miracle.
 
Exactly the same reductionist 'logic' that you are using suggests that Mana does work, but you've simply chosen not to believe that it does, for whatever reason, which gets us precisely nowhere. Most people accept that what you stand a speaker on changes the sound, but not you. OK.

There is no 'proof' in audio, ever. I could say that a Dual 505 sounds better than a Platine Verdier, or whatever. Now, please 'prove' that statement to be false.

Kind regards,
 
dat19 said:
Why would I compare them?

.........................................................................................

If Mana had real sonic benefits, there would be widespread adoption.
Click to expand...
To your first point, so that you might have some basis, other than theoretical, to have this discussion. And to your second point, there are numerous examples of superior products which never 'took off' commercially, how about Betamax versus VHS video? Most people acknowledge that Betamax was a better format than VHS, but VHS won the battle via marketing hype.

The ATCs are sufficiently far away from my listening position that they are not 'off axis'. I certainly can't detect any significant or definite change to the sound whether I'm standing up, or sitting down.

Is this a wind-up?
 
The Devil said:
Exactly the same reductionist 'logic' that you are using suggests that Mana does work, but you've simply chosen not to believe that it does, for whatever reason, which gets us precisely nowhere.
Click to expand...

You have made some wild claims about Mana, like this risible piece of bullshit:

Un-Mana'd systems can't do dynamics properly. That's why we Mana users can play a lot louder than you without any strain or distortion.
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Yet you can make no logical argument as to why this should be the case and show that mana does indeed work. You have identified an effect but not provided a cause.

I have pointed out to you that it is possible your stands are making a small difference (an effect), and I've given you a rational explanation to the cause (height). I guess what you don't like is that the effect could have been acheived very simply and at little cost.

Most people accept that what you stand a speaker on changes the sound, but not you. OK.
Click to expand...

Well, if were talking about most people, most people do not splash out stupid amounts of money on speaker stands. Moreover, most people buy stands that are approximately the right height.

There is no 'proof' in audio, ever.
Click to expand...

That is simply wrong. There is plenty of evidence about what matters in hearing and audio reproduction and it is published under proper peer review. You just haven't read any of it.

I could say that a Dual 505 sounds better than a Platine Verdier, or whatever. Now, please 'prove' that statement to be false.
Click to expand...

Your confusing facts and opinions. In your example you are offering an opinion.. If you said that you prefer the Dual because it has lower distortion, flatter response, better channel separation - ie a fact, a quantifiable thing to measure, then we could verify that the Dual does indeed perform better on that metric (ie prove whether you were right or wrong).
 
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The Devil said:
And to your second point, there are numerous examples of superior products which never 'took off' commercially, how about Betamax versus VHS video? Most people acknowledge that Betamax was a better format than VHS, but VHS won the battle via marketing hype.
Click to expand...

What is the point you are making?

Beta Superior. Beta didn't take off.

Mana didn't take off, therefore Mana superior :)

Is that it??

Now, let's talk about Beta vs VHS - in what way was betamax technically superior? [Other than tape length which was why it won.. :)] I'm asking you this to see if you know (and understand) the facts that support the claim "beta is technically superior to vhs" or whether you "acknowledge" an assertion as fact ("trust me, I'm a doctor") without looking at the evidence.

The ATCs are sufficiently far away from my listening position that they are not 'off axis'. I certainly can't detect any significant or definite change to the sound whether I'm standing up, or sitting down.
Click to expand...

Now this is interesting because if I measured your speakers with a calibrated mike, I'd be able to show you the difference that 10 degrees below axis can make - it would be obvious on a frequency response plot.

On the other hand, if I measured your speakers on all that Mana and then measured them again on a stand of the same height the difference would be negligible.

Yet somehow you are able to "hear" the mana..

Is this a wind-up?
Click to expand...

I could equally well ask you whether Mana is just a practical joke that got out of hand? :)
 
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